Reconstruction talk:Proto-Indo-European/dn̥ǵʰwéh₂s

Independent associative changes in three branches

I find it a bit hard to believe. Hbrug 10:40, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree, but that seems to be the case. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 05:13, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

I sure wish Greek had either *δαφή (*daphḗ) or *δαχύς (*dakhús), but no joy. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 15:39, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

The *s

@CodeCat, why the final *s? Is there any evidence of it? —JohnC5 06:41, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

No idea. But Ringe reconstructs it that way, so we copied that. I recall that there was a larger discussion about this not too long ago. —CodeCat 13:07, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

We discussed the fact that *Vh₂s# > *Vh₂# for nom.sg. seemed to be an appropriate rule with in mod:ine-nominals, but we never figured out why. —JohnC5 18:37, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Well let's see what evidence there is. I think all branches have nouns without the -s, though I'm not sure on Anatolian or Tocharian, that would have to be verified. Which branches have nouns with the -s? Greek does, any others? —CodeCat 18:40, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Tocharian is not going to be much help since the nominal inflection was massively reworked.

According to Kloekhorst, on one *ḫ-stem survives in erḫ- “line boundary”:

erḫaš < *h₁ér-h₂-o-s << *h₁ér-h₂(-s)

arḫan < *h₁r-h₂-o-m << *h₁r-éh₂-m̥

arḫaš << *h₁r-h₂-ós

araḫza<< *h₁r-éh₂-ti

“The paradigms of other *h₂-stems have been levelled out, due to which the direct reflex of *h₂ was lost. This caused the eventual merging of these stems with the a-stem nouns, cf. e.g. § ḫāššā- ‘hearth’.”

This seems to imply that the regular thematicized *h₂-stems may have developed after the split of Analotian.

As mentioned here, Sihler believes the Ancient Greek final feminine sigma to be imported from masculine -ος (-os). I really don't see direct evidence of the final *-s. —JohnC5 19:36, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

That makes sense then. Are there any sources that reconstruct this without the final -s? Then we can move the entry and leave this spelling as an alternative reconstruction cited to Ringe. —CodeCat 19:40, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

De Vaan has *dnǵʰ-uh₂. Kroonen has *d(é)nǵʰ-uh₂ ~ *dnǵʰ-uéh₂-s. Adams has *dṇǵʰweh₂-n-. Derksen has *dnǵʰ-uh₂- (My guess is that the Baltic -s is secondary). Martirosyan has *dnǵʰu(e)h₂-. Matasovic has *dnǵʰuh₂-. Kroonen seems to be following Kortlandt's of a proterodynamic inflection. —JohnC5 20:14, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

So none of them directly reconstructs a hysterokinetic noun like Ringe does. That makes things more difficult. —CodeCat 20:20, 6 November 2016 (UTC)