Talk:lay

To lay and to lie

To lay and to lie — a comparison of troublemakers

Term	Definition	Present participle	Simple past	Past participle	Transitivity
lay	To put, to place.	laying	laid	laid	Transitive
lie	To be placed horizontally. To be placed or situated.	lying	lay	lain	Intransitive
lie	To distort the truth.	lying	lied	lied	Intransitive

--Dan Polansky 16:28, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

That's a pretty useful table, DP. Can we insert that in the entry somewhere, somehow?

Currently the Usage notes are written in a rather dense and academic style, which may be comprehensible to people who already know what they're explaining, but are likely to be less useful to casual users of Wiktionary who don't necessarily understand even what transitive and intransitive means.

I would also strongly recommend adding (more) examples in the Usage notes — regardless of whether or not the above table is included.

If the table were included, it could be modified as something like

To lay and to lie — a comparison of verb forms

Term	Definition	Present participle	Simple past	Past participle	Transitivity	Examples (present/simple past)	Example (past participle)
lay	To put, to place.	laying	laid	laid	Transitive	He lays/laid the book down.	He had laid the book down. The book was laid down by him.
lie	To be placed horizontally. To be placed or situated.	lying	lay	lain	Intransitive (or reflexive)	She lies/lay down. (She lies/lay herself down.)	She had lain down. (She had lain herself down.)
lie	To distort the truth.	lying	lied	lied	Intransitive	He lies/lied to his mother.	He had lied to his mother.

The formatting of the table isn't working in the preview, but I have used identical syntax to DP, so... *shrug*.

UPDATE: I fixed the syntax corruption that was caused by entering wikitable code in the "Reply" mode of submission.

—DIV (1.145.44.122 07:32, 2 November 2023 (UTC))

Possible missing sense: share of profits at sea?

See the Moby Dick citation at stiver: "all hands, including the captain, received certain shares of the profits called lays […] And though the 275th lay was what they call a rather long lay, yet it was better than nothing". Equinox ◑ 14:39, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

press down flat

to smooth something down or make something lie flat
The cat laid back its ears.
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009

--Backinstadiums (talk) 11:51, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

(U.S.) terms of employment

terms of employment or purchase
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009

Can somebody confirm this meaning? --Backinstadiums (talk) 12:05, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

lay before

lay before transitive verb 
to present something for consideration by somebody 
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009

--Backinstadiums (talk) 16:19, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Regular verb

The verb lay means ‘to put something down carefully in a flat position’. It must have an object. It is a regular verb, but note the spelling of the past simple and -ed form: laid not layed. --Backinstadiums (talk) 12:42, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

RFV discussion: August–September 2021

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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lay

Rfv-sense: A plan; a scheme. - supposedly a Dickens quote out there TVdinnerless (talk) 11:03, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

@TVdinnerless: the sense appears in the OED; the Dickens quote is from Bleak House ("He's not to be found on his old lay."), and there is a use in Walter Scott's Tales of My Landlord, Second Series (The Heart of Mid-Lothian), volume II ("I shall be on that lay nae mair."). — SGconlaw (talk) 18:28, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Adding them cites TVdinnerless (talk) 21:41, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

I found a third, so this is now cited Kiwima (talk)

Regarding the Dickens quote:

"It's very plain, sir. Since our people have moved this boy on, and he's not to be found on his old lay, if Mr. Snagsby don't object to go down with me to Tom-all-Alone's and point him out, we can have him here in less than a couple of hours' time. I can do it without Mr. Snagsby, of course, but this is the shortest way."

Are we quite sure that "lay" means "plan" or "scheme"? I would have read "his old lay" as meaning his old haunt(s), the place(s) that he used to frequent. Mihia (talk) 19:46, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Well, would you Adam and Eve it, I just googled "his old lay" and "haunts", and retrieved this, so someone else thinks the same too. Mihia (talk) 19:56, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

@Mihia: the OED’s definition is somewhat broader: “A line or plan of business, occupation, adventure, etc.; a (particular) job, ‘line’, or ‘tack’”. Another sense is “A place of lying or lodging; lair”, though all the quotations relate to animals. If you think this sense fits better, I suppose it is possible that Dickens extended it to refer to a person. — SGconlaw (talk) 22:15, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

It does seem that way to me. Mihia (talk) 16:50, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

RFV-resolved. I have changed the definition to one that hopefully captures this sense. Kiwima (talk) 21:47, 29 September 2021 (UTC)