Talk:ostensible

Latest comment: 2 years ago by Backinstadiums in topic vs. ostensive

RFV edit

 

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RFV for the sense "alleged, having an intention that is possibly but not obviously true". I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 22:59, 29 May 2013 (UTC)Reply

Widespread use, though not worded very well:
Even Webster 1913 has two senses:
  1. Capable of being shown; proper or intended to be shown.
  2. Shown; exhibited; declared; avowed; professed; apparent; -- often used as opposed to real or actual; as, an ostensible reason, motive, or aim.
Move to RfC. DCDuring TALK 00:48, 30 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
Yes, those two from Webster both sound fine. The second sense in the entry, as currently written, doesn't express either of those things; indeed, I take it as describing an ulterior motive that one is accused of harbouring. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 01:15, 30 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
I think it has come to mean something closer to the challenged definition over these past 100 years.
Collins online thesaurus has:
ostensible, adjective
apparent, seeming, supposed, alleged, so-called, pretended, exhibited, manifest, outward, superficial, professed, purported, avowed, specious
the ostensible reason for his resignation
It definitely can have a negative valence. DCDuring TALK 01:45, 30 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
The synonym pretended follows from an extension of "...often used as opposed to real or actual; as, an ostensible reason, motive, or aim"; however, it is the alleged synonym that I challenge. Certainly, a person can have an ostensible motive in the sense that he pretends to have a (perhaps more moral) motive than the ulterior motive that he actually has; however, to say that a person has an ostensible motive in the sense that he is alleged to have a (perhaps immoral) motive that he has been trying to hide is catachrestic usage which runs contrary to the core "showy" sense (as in ostentatious) of the word ostensible. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 11:27, 30 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
Well, alleged has the following among its three definitions at MWOnline:
questionably true or of a specified kind : supposed, so-called
<bought an alleged antique vase>
If we don't have that sense, we should. DCDuring TALK 11:46, 30 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
Well, we have "supposed but doubtful", which seems to fit. Even if allege(d) can have that sense, I think it best to avoid the word's use in that definition, owing to the confusion it can occasion. I'm so meta even this acronym (talk) 12:54, 30 May 2013 (UTC)Reply
As for Collins online thesaurus, what it lists are near-synonyms rather than synonyms, so they do not help all that much in designing or clarifying a definition. --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:01, 17 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • I ask for attesting quotations rather than the hypothesis of widespread use. Let us see what sort of quotations are supposed to match the sense. Webster 1913's "Shown; exhibited; declared; avowed; professed; apparent" seems suspect to me, as "apparent" is not really synonymous with "professed" by my lights, "professed" being more specific than "apparent". Compare to modern “ostensible”, in Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, Springfield, Mass.: Merriam-Webster, 1996–present. with its two senses; compare also “ostensible” (US) / “ostensible” (UK) in Macmillan English Dictionary., which has only one sense. --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:01, 17 November 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • I've removed the disputed sense as RFV-failed, and added a third sense to match what other dictionaries have (with a usex showing the sort of context the sense appears in so that others can find durable citations if they wish to). - -sche (discuss) 00:13, 7 January 2014 (UTC)Reply


vs. ostensive edit

Ostensible = seeming; apparent <her ostensible opinion isn’t supported by her actions>. Ostensive = clearly displaying; directly demonstrative <his behavior was ostensive of his debased character> --Backinstadiums (talk) 18:45, 31 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

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