Talk:overgang
Latest comment: 9 years ago by -sche in topic RFV discussion: March–May 2014
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This entry contains a whole lot more senses than there are citations of this word by different authors in modern (post-1500) English. George Stephens used the "transition" sense a lot, so only two more citations are needed for it; I also managed to find one citation of the "exceed" sense. - -sche (discuss) 07:27, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
- I think we can save this entry by condensing the nearly-redundant senses together. Do "go beyond", "overrun", "exceed" and "overdose" have such different meanings that they can't be replaced with a simple "to outdo, to overdo."? A lot of cites seem to be using it in a Dutch or Danish context (eg. in discussions of Kierkegaard, the House of Orange or the Dutch colonies), which adds to the complexity, and some are probably Scots rather than English (eg this). I've added a few cites; I think there are ultimately two verb senses here - "to pass over" and "to surpass" - and two noun senses - "a passage over something; a right of way" (from Scots) and "a transition" (from Dutch/Danish) - and perhaps even these could be combined as literal and metaphorical takes on the same root sense. Smurrayinchester (talk) 08:35, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- The "short overganging chimney" citation (from a snippet) for the "to pass over" is almost certainly a scanno for "short overhanging chimney", which latter collocation has 16 Google Books hits, with "overhanging chimney" getting a raw Google count of 1,080. DCDuring TALK 10:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- I checked the original text - it does say "overganging" in the book. Normally, I'd assume it was a typo, but since it's a Scottish journal, I gave it a pass. Smurrayinchester (talk) 10:02, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- But it really looks like a mistake for the common collocation in climbing literature. DCDuring TALK 10:10, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- See this cite from the same Scottish Mountaineering Club Journal. DCDuring TALK 10:51, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- Fair enough then. Discount that one, and maybe the "overgang to maintain Catholic freedom" one as well. That seems like it might be just a quotation of the Dutch word. Smurrayinchester (talk) 13:35, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- See this cite from the same Scottish Mountaineering Club Journal. DCDuring TALK 10:51, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- But it really looks like a mistake for the common collocation in climbing literature. DCDuring TALK 10:10, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- I checked the original text - it does say "overganging" in the book. Normally, I'd assume it was a typo, but since it's a Scottish journal, I gave it a pass. Smurrayinchester (talk) 10:02, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
- I've collapsed the noun and verb sections down to a single sense each, but kept the RFV open. The adjective sense looks doomed - I can't find any evidence that anyone other George Stephens ever described runes as "overgang", so I assume its just an idiosyncrasy of his. Smurrayinchester (talk) 09:56, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
- Excellent work, Smurrayinchester. The noun and verb senses passed (some time ago), the adjective section has now been removed as RFV-failed, with its citations moved to the citations page. - -sche (discuss) 19:36, 29 May 2014 (UTC)