Talk:premier

"premier ministre" belongs on a separate page - moving it. -- Paul G 16:11, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Dutch IPA

@Mnemosientje, Thadh, Morgengave, Rua, Lambiam: The Dutch pronunciation section contains an old transcription /prɛ.ˈmiːr/, which I have never heard and I must say the /ɛ/ in this position looks very suspect to me. The /iːr/ also looks really strange for French /je/ but it could of course be a spelling pronunciation. Is this a local or historical variant?? ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 08:30, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

I only know the standard "prumjé" pronunciation. Van Dale lists no others. Local/historical variant would be my best guess too, maybe a Flanders thing or summat — Mnemosientje (t · c) 10:25, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

I forgot to mention this, but I checked a few VRT items from this year about prime ministers, in all cases /prəˈmjeː/ was used. But of course the VRT often doesn't use colloquial Flemish pronunciations. The ANW and ABN-Uitspraakgids both give /prəˈmjeː/ (the latter of course with different conventions). ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 10:45, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Given the French pronunciation as well as the way a final ⟨e⟩ of an unstressed syllable is generally handled in words of Germanic origin, an /ɛ/ would be quite unexpected. It suggests analysis as the nucleus of a closed syllable (with hyphenation: prem‧ier), as might result when people who do not know the word and do not recognize its French origin have to pronounce it. (The wasp who was the ancestor of the ants was a pre-mier, but that gives one an /e/ and a different stress.) Compare also the Dutch pronunciation of première.  --Lambiam 12:46, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo. Belgian-Dutch has kept the French pronunciation of premier (unlike for example dossier which normally takes the Dutch-spelling pronunciation in Belgian-Dutch). Morgengave (talk) 21:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

I'll remove it then. If it doesn't represent a standard pronunciation of Dutch, it shouldn't be in there without some label indicating usage. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 07:19, 13 December 2020 (UTC)