Last modified on 20 October 2010, at 15:00

Talk:raison d'être

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Wiktionary:Requests for verification - keptEdit

Kept. See archived discussion of April 2008. 06:00, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

does anyone know about any history or raison d'etre?

pronunciationEdit

How is this pronounced?

IPA added. Widsith 13:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

It's pronounced : Rays-ON duhthra! —This unsigned comment was added by 199.89.212.203 (talkcontribs).

The French IPA makes it sound more like Rays-ON duhthr (without the final vowel). And that's how Bob Garfield pronounced it on the Feb 23, 2007 On the Media show (mp3, skip to 2:00). Did he pronounce it incorrectly? --Interiot 19:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
That web site seems to be having problems. I'd guess yes, he made a minor mispronunciation, if he left off the final vowel. --Connel MacKenzie 20:02, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
No, he didn't. In normal speech there is no final vowel in French, as the Pronunciation section of this page clearly shows. Widsith 20:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
The audio feed came to life now. Yes, he positively mispronounced it. The English pronunciation (listen to the audio file here) always has the final vowel pronounced. --Connel MacKenzie 20:17, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Well yes, except many people in English will still pronounce it à la français. Widsith 20:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
No. I've never heard the English mispronounced that way before. See also http://m-w.com. --Connel MacKenzie 20:21, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Hardly a mispronunciation, when the phrase itself is French. Maybe it doesn't happen in the States, but believe me Connel, over here it does. In fact the ‘French’ pronunciation is the only one given by the OED. Widsith 20:26, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
In the States, it’s pronounced /'reɪ'zɔn 'dɛtrə/, but it is commonly mispronounced as /'reɪzən də'treɪ/. —Stephen 20:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Now, I still have trouble reading your IPA, but I thought Widsith was suggesting the upside-down and backwards "e" was silent...and "ei" would rhyme with "thee"? I've never heard a human being say raison d'etre in English, in either of those ways. I agree the mispronunciation is minor; if I were transcribing it, I'd transcribe it in italics (because he clearly was trying to be pompous, saying it in French, not English.) But more likely, (especially in a different context) I wouldn't notice, or would simply ignore it. --Connel MacKenzie 07:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
No, not like "thee" ... "eɪ" rhymes with "rays", "raise", "maize". It could be written this way: RAYS ON DEH-truh. But some people mispronounce it RAISin duh-TRAY. —Stephen 17:31, 26 February 2007 (UTC)