Last modified on 25 November 2010, at 19:49

Talk:realise

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BritishEdit

Discussion posted hereEdit

I don't understand why the British label is wrong (re: not British. Otherwise epee would be French English). This is certainly not used in the USA and is a rare variant in Canada. References.

  • CanOD (s.v. realize): “also esp. Brit. -ise
  • Online Etymology Dictionary: “British spelling of realize
  • Random House (s.v. realize): “Also, especially British, re·al·ise.”
  • Ultralingua: “Alternate (chiefly British) spelling of “realize.” ”

Seems that chiefly British would be our equivalent. Michael Z. 2010-03-18 21:37 z

Do "most linguists" deny that India, Pakistan, Ireland, Jamaica, Australia and New Zealand exist? This probably needs about 8 other contexts tags, then. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:27, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Get real. I already explained the conventional, technical meaning of British English, and the references hold it up. If you want to propose your own improved jargon especially for Wiktionary then go ahead and propose it. But if you randomly inject it into entries you're just causing confusion and working against everyone else here. Michael Z. 2010-03-18 23:10 z
If a load of linguists jumped off a cliff, would you do it? Mglovesfun (talk) 23:25, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Plus, doesn't answer my question. Non sarcastic answers especially welcome. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:26, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Maybe a template {{British spelling}} that displays (British) but categorizes in Category:British spellings would solve this. If Mzajac could reply rather than making sarcastic remarks, this would go a lot quicker. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:28, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Since you're having an amazing amount of trouble replying, I'll simplify for you. I also know you like patronizing people, so how about being patronized yourself
  1. Is realise used only in the UK, nowhere else?
  2. Would a template {{British spelling}} remove this ambiguity?

Please reply first, then make sarcastic comments at me. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:31, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Using the standard vocabulary of dictionaries is not jumping off of a cliff. One or three editors in a big volunteer project adopting novel conventions without any wider agreement is jumping off of a cliff.
Nobody said realise is used only in the UK. You are harping on a willful misinterpretation of a technical label whose use is almost universal in English dictionaries. (And if you're going to be pedantically wrong about it, you could acknowledge that the UK is not Britain.)
I'd be glad to look at a proposal for a set of spelling templates that looked at all of the implications. But we don't have that. Michael Z. 2010-03-19 16:18 z
Re "Nobody said realise is used only in the UK" that's what the template {{British}} is for! The distinction you fail to make is that paper dictionaries don't categorize, and we do. Perhaps you should ring up Merriam Webster and ask their opinion, if you're purely using the "we must do what other dictionaries do" approach. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:33, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to see some evidence that linguists use British English to mean simultaneously British spellings like realise and British regionalisms like snicket. I don't dispute that linguists use these to mean these separately, it's the at the same time bit I dispute. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:49, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Transferred from Wiktionary:Requests_for_deletion/Others#Template:Commonwealth_spellingEdit

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Similarly realise shouldn't be listed as British (which it isn't anyway) as it's not a British words, it doesn't have a different meaning in Britain to in the rest of the English-speaking world. Ditto colour, what's the meaning of colour that we have in Britain but not in the rest of the world? These would be ok as British spellings, but not British English, which refers to English only used or having supplementary meanings in Britain. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:12, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
British English is the the variety that comes from Britain. This is the way it's used in every dictionary and by every linguist. Making up new language classifications is naïve and counterproductive. Michael Z. 2010-03-18 19:18 z
Is that relevant to what I said somehow? Mglovesfun (talk) 19:23, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I was explaining why realise should be listed as British. How did you not get that? But this is neither here nor there. Michael Z. 2010-03-18 20:00 z
I'm distinguishing between British words and British spellings. Realise is not a British word, I don't think we have Category:British spellings and Category:American spellings yet. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:11, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I see your point, but it would become confusing to divorce spelling from the other aspects of regionalism. I tried to clarify realise and realize by sprucing up the labels and adding a note. Michael Z. 2010-03-18 20:45 z
You clarified them by adding untrue information. Nice going. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:50, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Would you care to explain what is untrue about realise being a British-English spelling, or do you just like to chat? Michael Z. 2010-03-18 20:56 z
* CanOD (s.v. realize): “also esp. Brit. -ise
* Random House (s.v. realize): “Also, especially British, re·al·ise.”
* Ultralingua: “Alternate (chiefly British) spelling of “realize.” ”
—This comment was unsigned.
I believe Mglovesfun is explaining that "British spelling" and "British-English spelling" are not really synonymous, and the latter is not very meaningful. It's possible to write British English using only American spellings (He claimed he had traveled* three kilometers* to buy the packet of crisps, whilst they claimed he had nicked it from a gent at a cash point, and sent him to jail for it. — if you'll pardon my horrible attempt at British English) and vice versa. —RuakhTALK 21:45, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, saying that realise is British implies that isn't used anywhere else in the world. Something like {{British spelling of}} sounds completely ok. Other wise put {{British|Canadian|Pakistani|Australian|New Zealand|Irish|Jamaican}} on the entry, not just British. Mglovesfun (talk) 22:25, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Aren't these countries apart of Britain for all intents and purposes? ---> Tooironic 22:32, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm trying to say don't confuse British words (words used in Britain, whatever that means, or having supplementary meanings in Britain) with British spellings. Realise is the British spelling of realize, but it's not a British word. The British didn't invent the word, and it's not only used in Britain. Does anyone think that the verb realise is never used ever apart from in Britain? Mzajacz, make your mind up! Mglovesfun (talk) 22:35, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
1. (chiefly British) Alternative spelling of realize.
As you know, our regional labels are used for dialect, regionalisms, and spelling. This use pretty clearly labels the spelling to me. What are you having trouble with? Michael Z. 2010-03-19 18:19 z