Talk:spinning

From wikipedia:Spinning:

• Purchasing many tickets at a one-ticket-per-patron event (e.g., a racetrack) where each ticket can be surrendered at the event for a promotional item. The spinner repeatedly buys a ticket and exits the venue, and on entering the last time trades in all tickets for an equal number of chatchkis. Ewlyahoocom 19:59, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

RFD discussion: January–September 2022

See Talk:growing#RFD discussion: January–September 2022.

RFV discussion: September 2022–February 2023

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spinning

Rfv-sense adjective Rapidly rotating on an axis; whirling. Can any citations be provided that clearly demonstrate adjectivality? Compare Talk:spiring; pinging also @DCDuring: to let you know this "passed" RFD. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 16:59, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I think this should pass based on the use examples for the negative formed with non- ... non-spinning black holes, non-spinning vertigo, non-spinning reserves. As per the reply I wrote below under #non-growing (which i saw without realizing it was part of a set), I would say that unless non-spinning is actually a verb, this particular would should be kept on the basis that an adjective formed with non- requires a base word that is also an adjective. One could argue that the non- prefix can turn verbs into adjectives, but then we would have to say that with phrases like "spinning and non-spinning" the two content words are different parts of speech, which seems tortuous to me.

I dont plan to apply this same logic to the whole set, though, because the other base words have clear antonyms that would discourage the use of words like non-surrounding and the like. —Soap— 19:35, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

As I said below, that seems like assuming the conclusion. Indeed, if e.g. raining and unraining skies or snowing and unsnowing skies isn't using a participle + adjective, it seems to me easier to view it as (usually) two particles and connect the [other] use of unrain and unsnow as verbs, rather than to view it as making raining or snowing an adjective. However, I do see one hit for "snowingest", so it's possible some of these might be attested in adjectival ways. - -sche (discuss) 19:49, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

I used non- because it came to mind first, but I think my point comes across just as well with un- on the basis that adjectives like unsnowing cannot possibly be bracketed as unsnow + -ing, but can only be from un- + snowing. The rare, poetic verb "unsnow" would surely be understood as meaning to remove snow, and not as "to withhold snow". Whereas unsnowing skies would just as surely be understood as skies that cannot deliver snow, and not as skies that evaporate snow from the ground.

Likewise, if unspin is a verb, it probably has a dynamic meaning requiring context to understand, but I would not expect to find it to mean "to not spin", whereas the word unspinning, if used as an adjective, can only describe something which does not spin. I do think my point comes across clearer with my original non- examples, though.

Either way, this still leaves us with the question of whether prefixes like un- and non- can turn a verb into an adjective. If they can, then I suppose we could argue that snowing really is a verb even when it describes a characteristic of something. If it can't, then snowing must be an adjective so long as either unsnowing or non-snowing is in common use as an adjective. But I don't know the answer to that question. Is that something that scholars have settled with a clear yes or no, or is it an endless debate of the type that such scholars take delight in arguing about? —Soap— 20:24, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

If English present participle is an amphibian that acts both as a verb and as an adjective, then I don't see what objective test could ever conclusively show it to be an adjective beyond the participle: any adjectival behavior can be explained away as a behavior of the underlying participle. What are examples of adjective -ing forms that passed verification as separate adjectives? Wiktionary:Votes/2022-01/Excluding trivial present participal adjectives does not given any examples of adjectives beyond participles.

I think WT:LEMMINGs can help us, as always. Adjective "spinning" is not in M-W and AHD. “spinning”, in OneLook Dictionary Search.. This can probably be deleted. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:58, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

@Dan Polansky This is exactly the argument you just called faulty logic, because you're trying to use lack of inclusion in other dictionaries as a reason for deletion. We also have quite a few tests for adjectives, but this is also RFV, not RFD. Theknightwho (talk) 12:06, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I admit that LEMMING guides deletion in this case, but if it were approved as an automatic rule, the rule would not force the deletion here. It follows from the formulation of LEMMING. The referenced page mentions "very ___, too ___" as a test: if present participles are amphibians acting in part as adjectives, why does this behavior go outside of scope of the participle behavior? And again, what are some examples of -ing adjectives that shall be included? Should I play the game implied by the reference page:

"For example; suns go “nova” and become spinning at hundreds of times per second!": Adj?

"Turning would become spinning at higher super speed.": Noun?

"A time is coming in the very near future when everything will become spinning." Adj?

I cannot find more supporting quotations. But I do not see why "become" conclusively proves anything, exactly because participles are amphibians by definition. Wiktionary:English adjectives does not list any example of adjective-beyond-participle -ing form. Again, seeing examples is what would really help. --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:29, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Read more, type less. -ing verbs are specifically addressed further down the page. If you want to take issue with the tests then go ahead, but I'm not going to participate in that discussion. Theknightwho (talk) 12:39, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I see no examples of adjectives-beyond-participles there. Does anyone have the requested examples? --Dan Polansky (talk) 12:57, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

RFV Failed Ioaxxere (talk) 22:41, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

RFD discussion: January 2022–April 2023

See Talk:falling#RFD discussion: January 2022–April 2023.