Talk:uncanny
I don't think this definition really corresponds to my understanding of this word. Particularly "unsafe".
- I have removed "unsafe". This definition came from the (public domain) 1913 Webster's, and some of its definitions are dated or no longer accurate. If you find definitions like this, feel free to improve them. —Dvortygirl 06:19, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
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Rfv-sense: (psychology, psychoanalysis, Freud) Simultaneously familiar and foreign, often uncomfortably so; translation of Freud's German unheimlich ("no longer secret").
I request attestation per WT:ATTEST. Sense originally added on 7 January 2007 in diff. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:44, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
- Translation by who? Perhaps not all translators would use the same word. Mglovesfun (talk) 20:56, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
- My understanding is that this is a widespread, standard English term for Freud's unheimlich. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. Mr. Granger (talk) 22:10, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
- Still needs citing. When cited, we can see if the citations lead to a specific gloss or usage note such as "in translations of Freud". Mglovesfun (talk) 23:11, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
- Would it help that the essay titled Das Unheimliche (1919) is canonically titled "The Uncanny" in English translation? I imagine the entire essay would count as citation. The supplied translation of "Unheimlich" as "no longer secret" is somewhat baffling. It clearly breaks down as "un-homely", meaning "not comfortably familiar", and "uncanny" = "beyond one's ken" seems a good direct translation (in terms of the implications of being disturbing and potentially distressing). --Catsidhe (verba, facta) 00:54, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
- Cited. Mr. Granger (talk) 03:00, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
- Given the cites added in diff by you, we now have enough evidence to see that "the uncanny" is used in reference to Freud. But what about evidence attesting "Simultaneously familiar and foreign, often uncomfortably so" definition? I emphasize the apparent contradition in the definition. On one more note, the def says '... German unheimlich ("no longer secret")', where "no longer secret" seems implausible given both unheimlich and “unheimlich” in Duden online. On a final note, the sense actually attested in references to Freud should IMHO significantly differ from the sense of "strange, and mysteriously unsettling" (which we already have) in order to be kept. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:52, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
- I agree that the definition could use to be reworded. Maybe something like "similar to what is familiar, but having an unnerving foreign quality"? I don't know enough German to comment on the "no longer secret" gloss, except to say that the word heimlich apparently does mean "secret".
- I do think this definition is distinct from "strange and mysteriously unsettling". When someone discussing Freud uses the word uncanny, they have this very specific meaning in mind, not a general idea of "mysteriously unsettling". Mr. Granger (talk) 20:55, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
- Given the cites added in diff by you, we now have enough evidence to see that "the uncanny" is used in reference to Freud. But what about evidence attesting "Simultaneously familiar and foreign, often uncomfortably so" definition? I emphasize the apparent contradition in the definition. On one more note, the def says '... German unheimlich ("no longer secret")', where "no longer secret" seems implausible given both unheimlich and “unheimlich” in Duden online. On a final note, the sense actually attested in references to Freud should IMHO significantly differ from the sense of "strange, and mysteriously unsettling" (which we already have) in order to be kept. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:52, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
- Cited. Mr. Granger (talk) 03:00, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
- Would it help that the essay titled Das Unheimliche (1919) is canonically titled "The Uncanny" in English translation? I imagine the entire essay would count as citation. The supplied translation of "Unheimlich" as "no longer secret" is somewhat baffling. It clearly breaks down as "un-homely", meaning "not comfortably familiar", and "uncanny" = "beyond one's ken" seems a good direct translation (in terms of the implications of being disturbing and potentially distressing). --Catsidhe (verba, facta) 00:54, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
- Still needs citing. When cited, we can see if the citations lead to a specific gloss or usage note such as "in translations of Freud". Mglovesfun (talk) 23:11, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
- My understanding is that this is a widespread, standard English term for Freud's unheimlich. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. Mr. Granger (talk) 22:10, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
- Passed. — Ungoliant (falai) 03:39, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
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Encyclopedic psychological definition. I would just delete, but perhaps something can be salvaged. DCDuring TALK 19:53, 7 January 2012 (UTC)
- I've had a go. Hopefully not far off the mark. — Pingkudimmi 01:14, 8 January 2012 (UTC)