Template talk:cs-decl-noun

Comments

I have decreased the cell padding from 4 to 2, making the table more compact. --Daniel Polansky 07:17, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I have replaced the pink color in the row headings with the blue one from the column headings. As the table stands, it is conspicuous, looking more important than the other information provided with an entry, which it surely is not. At some point, the table should better use style classes. --Daniel Polansky 07:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I have returned the pink back, as it is much lighter than the blue one. All in all, I find the table too heavy. Removing some of the rules would be welcome. Putting the table as a floating one at the right, not taking away the vertical space, is also a thing I would like to consider. At this point, I am waiting to hear any further opinions, and see the templates of other languages with declension tables. --Daniel Polansky 07:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Links to the cases

At some point, I would like to have the links from the headings of the table removed, meaning going from "Singular" to "Singular". Right now, I do not know whether English Wikipedia has a policy or a pattern for these kinds of issues. I personally find these links as superfluous as if someone would put a link to Noun into every heading. --Daniel Polansky 07:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Drastic simplification of appearance

I have drastically simplified the appearance of the table, removing (a) colors, (b) links, (c) the decrease of font sizes in headings. --Daniel Polansky 08:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Please, if you prefer more conspicuous table, let us discuss it here. Also, please consider setting the style for the complete table, instead of setting the color of every heading cell of the table manually. --Daniel Polansky 08:33, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I have now also removed (d) rules, and (e) numbering, in an attempt to make the table as inconspicuous as possible. See also the declension table for Bosnian and Croatian, which have no numbering and no rules. --Daniel Polansky 08:43, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Light blue background added, to approximately match the appearance of the Wiktionary's table of contents of the pages, aligning the visual style of the declension table with the overall style of Wiktionary. --Daniel Polansky 09:02, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Centering of the data cells removed, resulting in visible pattern of declination; see e.g. dům. --Daniel Polansky 09:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Made foldable, modeled on the style of related terms. --Daniel Polansky 10:24, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Alternative output - unfoldable, custom-styled

Case	Singular	Plural
Nominative	{{{1}}}	{{{8}}}
Genitive	{{{2}}}	{{{9}}}
Dative	{{{3}}}	{{{10}}}
Accusative	{{{4}}}	{{{11}}}
Vocative	{{{5}}}	{{{12}}}
Prepositional	{{{6}}}	{{{13}}}
Instrumental	{{{7}}}	{{{14}}}

Alternative output - unfoldable, using prettytable class

Case	Singular	Plural
Nominative	{{{1}}}	{{{8}}}
Genitive	{{{2}}}	{{{9}}}
Dative	{{{3}}}	{{{10}}}
Accusative	{{{4}}}	{{{11}}}
Vocative	{{{5}}}	{{{12}}}
Prepositional	{{{6}}}	{{{13}}}
Instrumental	{{{7}}}	{{{14}}}

New output - foldable

    Declension

Case	Singular	Plural
Nominative	{{{1}}}	{{{8}}}
Genitive	{{{2}}}	{{{9}}}
Dative	{{{3}}}	{{{10}}}
Accusative	{{{4}}}	{{{11}}}
Vocative	{{{5}}}	{{{12}}}
Prepositional	{{{6}}}	{{{13}}}
Instrumental	{{{7}}}	{{{14}}}

Table width

How about shrinking it a bit like this:

    Declension

Case	Singular	Plural
Nominative	{{{1}}}	{{{8}}}
Genitive	{{{2}}}	{{{9}}}
Dative	{{{3}}}	{{{10}}}
Accusative	{{{4}}}	{{{11}}}
Vocative	{{{5}}}	{{{12}}}
Locative	{{{6}}}	{{{13}}}
Instrumental	{{{7}}}	{{{14}}}

Or you could add support for width= parameter override, so that it can be adjusted for long words ad-hoc. --Ivan Štambuk 14:29, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Done, modeled on {{hr-decl-noun}}; thanks for the hint. I still wonder whether the fixed width will not cut off long nouns; let us see. --Daniel Polansky 07:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I have now noticed only now that the width can be adjusted for long words ad-hoc, using the width= parameter. A small issue with this is that people may use fonts with different widths. Since about a week, I started to use custom monobook.css, using Verdana instead of Arial; Verdana has wider letters than the standard Arial. So if I fine-tune the width using Arial, the users with Verdana may see the words cut off. Solution: provide reserve by setting the width a bit higher than necessary. Or formulate the width in terms of "em", not in terms of "px"; "em" is currently used in the template. --Daniel Polansky 07:30, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Locative vs prepositional

At some point, the template has used the term prepositional to name the sixth grammatical case, while now it uses the term locative. Con locative: The sixth grammatical case is used not only with place, like for instance in "mluvit o jazyce" - "to speak about language", the term "jazyk" - "language" is in the sixth case. Pro locative: The term locative is used in W:Czech declension. I do not know which one is better or more standard, so I am just documenting that a choice has been made, possibly an arbitrary one. A reliable external source discussing and evaluating the decision between these two options or even considering some more options would be valuable. --Daniel Polansky 07:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

w:Prepositional case is a nice starting point. In some Slavic languages what is called "prepositional case" exactly corresponds with locative case of other Slavic languages, and other IE languages. Term 'prepositional' is of newer origin and coined for the purpose of eliminating impreciseness such as you describe above. However, locative was originally and primarily used for designating location, hence the name, despite further "refinements" for abstract concepts.

I think that the cross-language uniformity of terminology should be enforced as much as possible on Wiktionary, even at the expense of terms that are a bit more used in a specific languages (in this case English-language grammars of Czech). --Ivan Štambuk 15:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Color

All Slavic declension templates in [[Category:Declension templates by language]] use this color, including: Russian, Slovene, Slovak, the Serbo-Croatian bunch, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Ukrainian. Polish and OCS too use it, albeit in a different format. Why are you being stubborn, Polansky? --Vahagn Petrosyan 10:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)