Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2011/November

etymology of badger

This is a little bit about etymology and a little bit about how this case should be handled as far as formatting goes.

The noun badger referring to the animal has an etymology, which also has the verb form within it. The verb form, however, appears to have come from the sport of badger baiting rather than directly from the name of the animal. My question is, how do we handle derivative etymologies when they are for the same word? Should this be an additional etymology section? Should there be some etymological note because the two etymologies are so closely related? I am not an etymology pro so I have no opinion. - [The]DaveRoss 19:36, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

IMO put them under one etymology with an additional sentence or paragraph indicating the etymology of the verb:

From Middle English bageard (“marked by a badge”), from bage (“badge”), from Anglo-Norman bage (“emblem”), referring to the animal's badge-like white blaze. The verb derives from...

​—msh210℠ (talk) 21:28, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

lake

The entry for lake says that the word lake isn't related to lacus, loch, etc; and that it came from Appendix:Proto-Germanic/laguz. But the PG page says they are related. Which one is correct? Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 13:53, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't say lake came from PG *laguz, it says it came from PG *lakō, which has a different origin from *laguz (which in turn is related to lacus, loch, etc.). Lake can come from *lakō, but it can't come from *laguz. However, both the Online Etymology Dictionary and Dictionary.com say the Middle and Modern English word is probably a conflation of the Old English lacu (< PG *lakō < PIE *leg-) with French lac (< Latin lacus < PIE *lakw-) due to their similarity in form and meaning. Anyway, Appendix:Proto-Germanic/laguz doesn't say that lake comes from it. —Angr 14:20, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

I see. I had misunderstood that last sentence. Thanks for clearing it up. Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV 15:03, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

foobar etymology

Isn't this word from the German word furchtbar? ~ heyzeuss 18:41, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I've never heard of any connection to furchtbar myself. The only etyl I've ever run across is the one given -- the FUBAR acronym, much as for SNAFU. Military life just seems to give rise to acronyms and initialisms; another fun example is Charlie Foxtrot. -- Eiríkr Útlendi │ Tala við mig 18:56, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

FUBAR, as an acronym, might be a back formation from WWI and WWII when American and British soldiers had a lot of personal contact with their German counterparts. Being unable to pronounce furchtbar, the anglophones parroted foobar instead. I'll have to ask my grandfather because he used to guard POWs. ~ heyzeuss 06:23, 24 November 2011 (UTC)