Wiktionary talk:Administrators

Since Eclecticology has been inactive for a few weeks and there were a lot of requests waiting here, I've made three people admins who were voted for. If there's any problem with this, please say so at meta:Requests for permissions. Angela (steward) 11:17, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks. Eclecticology 21:43, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Request for all admins

Could all existing admins and accepting nominees please show the time zone in which they live as I have done. This will help to give a better picture of when people tend to be online. Eclecticology 04:38, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• ... and, as pointed out on Wikinews when this same request was made there, give the vandals information about what the best times to pick for vandalism will be. Uncle G 00:37, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Can you point me to statistics about how much increase in vandalism this caused? Eclecticology 07:44, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

De-sysopping

We should have a page like Wiktionary:Requests for de-adminship. Not that I wanna de-adminshipise anyone. Wonderfool

Better create that page and "rules" before we want to de-admin someone... :( \Mike 17:03, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Currently, there are two whose adminship I would revoke. Neither has made a single edit in more than a year. That's perhaps the least controversial criterion. Apart from that the occasion has not come up. I have had strong differences of opinions with others, but none of these have ever gotten near to the point where I would suggest that they be de-sysopped. Guidelines for doing this are probably a good thing, but I find that what has worked best for me so far is being conservative in appointing admins in the first place. Eclecticology 21:43, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

I think the core of any guidelines would be when we as a community feel it is no longer beneficial to the community that they be sysops. This would include people who do not edit and people who are abusive of their 'powers' (hypothetical at present). I think they should be demoted in the same way they are promoted, someone suggests it, the people speak, Ec acts ;) - TheDaveRoss

I'm actually a bit afraid of such a procedure, Dave. I'm on a project where that course of action you suggest was tried, but it only resulted in a hell of a fight. The sysop in question is now de-sysoped, but it took about six months of more or less constant struggle, and ppl are now trying to find a better way to deal with problematic syops. Of course, I don't assume people here to be as willig to fight, but still...  :( \Mike 08:14, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm afraid of most procedures. Failing to edit is fairly easy since the person isn't around to complain, and a time limit can be established objectively. Abuse of power is more gnarly, because it's such a subjective judgement. Watching this kind of debate about someone on Wikipedia just makes me want to run away. In many cases there's a misunderstanding involved, and just talking to both parties should be the first course of action. Eclecticology 23:23, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Certainly it isn't a pleasant occaision, but it is preferable (I think) to have an established means by which to remove status and rules governing when this action should be taken rather than having to feel our way through it when a situation arises. If all goes well perhaps we will have a procedure for something which never occurs, which would be lovely, but NASA plans for contingencies for a reason, things happen, and if we are planning for them we can handle them more efficiently and with less quarreling (hopefully). The question of where abuse of power comes into play is, as you say, gnarly. There are certainly some obvious cases; superfluous banning or deletion without cause come to mind, but there are also much more subjective situations, and I think that established guidelines will help both the sysops to have a clear idea of what is inappropriate and help the users understand whether a sysop's actions are worthy of complaint. It, if nothing else, is worthy of consideration. - TheDaveRoss 00:59, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

One difference between NASA and us is that what we are doing is not rocket science. Neither does anything of what we do put anyone in mortal danger, (though sometimes we wish we could with the likes of Mr. Ass Pus). Improper bannings and deletions can be contributory factors in deciding on a de-sysopping. Still my first avenue of approach is to attempt a dialog. Each case is unique. Eclecticology 02:19, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

How many administrators?

Before I do any appointing I would like to open the question of limiting the overall number of admins. I would also like to keep this general question apart from consideration of any particular one of the current nominees. (They are currently 9, but it is already decided to drop two of them.)

Although fixing vandalism has been cited as a reason for more admins, I really don't see the vandalism problem as being that bad. Most of our problems lately have been the product of one individual, and all who are already sysops are quick to act whenever he appears. In the case of a serious emergency I or the other bureaucrat to be appointed, or the stewards (whose numbers have been recently increased) should be prepared to make emergency appointments, but I honestly don't think that that will be necessary in the forseeable future.

I think that the perpetual accusations of sysop abuse that have become a part of Wikipedia's lifestyle are shameful. I can speculate about the causes of this. At the top of my list I could put the huge number of admins that they have, and a voting system that helps problem people to perpetuate their own kind while ignoring objective qualifications. A smaller number means people know what to expect of each other even when we have strongly differing POVs; hopefully we all know when to stop pursuing a point. Since this project started in December 2002 we have had no problem sysops, we have not needed an arbitration committee, we have not needed a three revert rule, and blocking has been limited to the most obvious vandals. I hope we can keep it like that.

I would propose that the number of sysops be limited to 20. Currently we have 17 with 7 nominations currently active, That would total 24. 2 of the existing sysops have not been seen for a long time and should be dropped from the list. I will also speak with Brion who is a developper but continues to be listed as an admin. His presence was necessary in the very early days. As a developper he can do everything that an admin can do, and much more so he may not want to remain on the list. This would bring the total to 21, but there are a couple whose absence is becoming notable. If necessary I would consider grandfathering those who have already been nominated, and would anly have the limit affect people who are nominated after the time of this message. Please comment on the proposal to limit the number of admins to 20. Eclecticology 04:25, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

<Jun-Dai 15:19, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)> I'm ambivalent about this proposal (among other things, I see the number of administrators we have as a rough sign of how serious this project is, along with other things, such as the number of edits we get, the number of top-notch entries we have--which we don't have any way of defining, currently. On the other hand, I see your point). If we do limit the number of administrators to 20, then I'd like to be dropped from the list of nominations, simply because I'm as likely to be valuable in an administrative role as these other people on the list. Or, to put it another way, my contributions to the Wiktionary are not likely to increase very much in quantity or value as a result of me being an administrator. Someone like Connel, on the other hand, has made great use of his new role, and I suspect the same would be true of a number of other users on the nomination list.

If the number were not limited, or we higher, then I think the added tool would be worth having, on my part. </Jun-Dai>

Nonsense. The amount of sysops we have does not matter (and we have not already decided to desysop those two). 24 19:35, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

First off, the exact number of administrators on Wiktionary does not matter any more than the 65,000th entry matters more than the 64,999th. Twenty is simply a nice, round number in a world where most people have ten fingers. Thus, I have no opinion on what exact number of administrators might be best. While some restraint may indeed be in order, the far more important point, whatever the number of administrators, is that they use their privileges responsibly.

That said, several of us (this crop of nominees) have sat watching in frustration as this vandal defaces article upon article, with no administrator in sight. Our various attempts to halt the destruction without administrative tools are relatively slow and ineffective, sometimes to the point, I think, of encouraging the abuse. While I certainly hope that having additional administrators on hand at various hours will act as a deterrent to such individuals, or at least speed and distribute the cleanup, administrators have duties that go far beyond vandalism.

Wiktionary currently has upwards of 70,000 entries, a number that grows every day. Many, if not most, of those articles need cleanup or attention in some form. Besides the ever-present red links, many articles need etymologies, pronunciations, definitions, translation checks, proofreading, and more. Extra eyes watching Recentchanges for spurious entries of all sorts, whether for cleanup, correction, or deletion, can catch more problems. Someone, I'm told, needs to delete a heap of bad tone count articles. (Would he like help?) It is true that many of these functions can be and are performed by contributors with no special privileges, but might a few extra tools allow us to share this enormous task a bit more efficiently and authoritatively?

As one who may soon become an administrator, I am inclined to welcome the extra help. Though I have supported everybody, I have not rubber stamped my vote on anybody's nomination. I am familiar with everybody's work and I would not have voted as I did (nor, I think, would Connel have nominated us) had anyone been, any less dedicated, conscientious, or thoughtful. Numbers aside, I firmly believe that your trust in this group would not be misplaced.--Dvortygirl 22:02, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Speaking of arbitrary, why not tie the max number of administrators to some sort of milestone? It will be important to have more administrators as the Wiktionary grows larger, and this way there will be no suggestion that the number has been expanded specifically to allow this user in, or kept low to exclude this other user. It could be the number of entries, or it could be the number of contributors, or the number of pages on requests for deletion, or the number of pages deleted, etc. Jun-Dai 23:01, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• I personally think this is all uneccessary and am opposed to limiting the number of admins. If a person is trustworthy then they should be an administrator. That should be the only requirement. Kevin Rector 16:26, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I do see Ec's point about Wikipedia being out of control. I only partly agree with his conclusion that it is a factor of the large number of administrators. I like the concept of recognising helpful contributors by labelling them as sysops/admins. I think the rollback feature should be available to all...or perhaps to all users who have been around a week or so. (Wiki theory is like communism - all can/should have all available tools, right? This isn't some kind of exclusive club.)

I have noticed the strange phenomenon of admins dissapearing, then returning months later. It is a little unnerving when an individual does it, moreso when several return around the same time. Not bad, just curious. Sysop requests are generally made during periods of sysabsence. When a whole possy returns, they seem in hindsight like a silly requests, even though the occasional need is genuine.

I like the notion of setting an optimal number of admins as being relative to the number of entries. Perhaps even better would be to have ~1% of all users be admins. Could you imagine 52 admins here? I easily can. I'm not convinced that these few extra tools really should require very much to obtain. Knowing that someone is an honest contributor, should be just about it (in wiki theory, anyhow.) --Connel MacKenzie 23:53, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What adminship is for; standards; authority

The following lift from "en" WP may be worth adapting as a new introductory para to the project page:

Administrators are Wikipedians who have "sysop rights". Current Wikipedia policy is to grant this access liberally to anyone who has been an active Wikipedia contributor for a while and is generally a known and trusted member of the community. Generally speaking, standards have become harder in practice. However, there are several administrators created every week. ..... "This should be no big deal," as Jimmy Wales has said.

Administrators are not imbued with any special authority, and are equal to everybody else in terms of editorial responsibility.

Robin Patterson 03:31, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think that would be nice, if we actually were so liberal in this regard. --Connel MacKenzie 20:27, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

• This page should have an intro that at least explains what rights adminship grants. (Template editing? Hiding page revisions? Blocking users?) — excarnateSojourner (talk · contrib) 04:33, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

  Special:ListGroupRights#sysop. 98.170.164.88 04:53, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Sysops and bureaucrats appointments, please!

We have had several nominations sitting in this page and at Wiktionary:Bureaucrats for some time now. They are all, to my knowledge, valuable, responsible, and trustworthy contributors with much to offer the community. In light of the recent and sudden switch from automatic article capitalization, thus creating vast numbers of residual redirects that will need to be sorted and deleted, may I please request that the consideration for upgrading these individuals' priveleges be accelerated? While there are an unusually high number of nominations this time, I believe each and every nomination is merited and supported by the community, and they deserve not to be left hanging.

Additionally, if I am not mistaken, Wonderfool is taking a month break (I believe I speak for the community when I say I sincerely hope it does not become permanent), and Connel and I will be called away on business during July. At the bureaucrat level, Eclecticology has had some absences, as well. Additional experienced hands and eyes at both the sysop and bureaucrat levels are needed now more than ever, so I would urge that we take action we have already approved and appoint our nominations promptly. --Dvortygirl 29 June 2005 21:32 (UTC)

Voting history

I see that someone has been adding voting histories for newly appointed admins. I really don't think that this is desireable. All admins are equal no matter who supported their nominations. Eclecticology 08:33, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)

That was me. I put that all there for the sake of full disclosure, it has nothing to do with equality. Of course all admins are equal no matter who supported them. I think having an archive of their election to admin status is a good thing. Kevin Rector 03:15, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've been giving this a think too. The concept of Full Disclosure is admirable, but so is the concept of a Secret Ballot. I don't want The David to take vengence on me, a mere mortal newbie, once he becomes sysop just because I voted against him. I believe Full Disclosure applies to voting only on proposals and prepositions. :-)

Just for the record, I have no fear of The David. (Perhaps I should?) :-) But what we want to avoid is having someone being afraid (an irrational feeling) to express a negative vote. Cheers, Stranger --SSL69 23:25, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

P.S. Upon re-reading. . . Fear can be very rational; it is feelings which are, ipso facto, irrational. --Stranger (SSL69 02:24, 24 August 2005 (UTC))

The list

The way the list of admins is set up is very impractical. I suggest using something like what Commons uses. Jon Harald Søby 18:29, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand which aspect of their format you think we should adopt. Is it the sidebar thingamajig? Or the fact that they are listed with their babel rating? The former I do not like, the latter might be useful. --Connel MacKenzie 21:20, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, what I think is, people don't care when an admin was appointed. The babel thing is also useful here, even more than in Commons. Whether or not the list is in a sidebar or not doesn't really matter… Jon Harald Søby 21:22, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

template:DIRMARK T

This is not about appointing administrators. The discussion has been moved to Wiktionary:Beer parlour where more people can see it. Eclecticology 22:19, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

What the Fuck!?

Who is User:Jonathan Webley and why is he an admin when User:Dangherous is not despite being nominated before Jonathan. Exactly how does this thing work anyway? Gerard Foley 21:46, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Informally I prefer to wait until there are at least ten supporters before I act. I have no idea why Dangherous has not reached that yet. When a person is nominated has nothing to do with when action is taken, nor are any comparisons of two nominees a part of that decision. Eclecticology 23:11, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Well it shouldn't be informal, it should be clearly stated how to become an admin. I see no reason why they need to last longer then 2 weeks, and 10 seems to a very high number considering how many people bother to express an opinion, 5 would be better. I know I pulled out after only 5 days (give or take) but I would have pulled out even faster if I had known this is how it works. I don't think it's worth it. Gerard Foley 00:04, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

It is natural to feel anticipation, once nominated. It can be very discouraging to get few (or no!) responses initially. Eclecticology's unintentional delays tend to (accidently?) weed out those who are impatient. Patience is a very important sysop attribute (confer Ec vs. Connel, Semper vs. anons, Ec vs. Ncik, Connel vs. Ncik, Dmh vs. Ec, Stephen vs. Primetime, etc.) Listening and patience are the best tools for reducing conflicts; most of the examples I just referred to were caused by lack thereof. I know that I wanted to vote for giving you tools to further develop the ideas you had started; I have my own reasons for abstaining initially. --Connel MacKenzie T C 19:31, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

I didn't want this to become a debate as to why I pulled out, it was to do with the shock of what I saw when I came back from my wikibreak, but what the hell.

As I remember I had 2 support votes when I quit, 1 from Jon Harald Søby, the other from Wonderfool (the guy who deleted the Main Page). This is not very encouraging. I also had 1 oppose vote from Ncik with some crap about me edit warring with him, but I believe it was more because I was the only one with the balls to give him his first oppose vote. An eye for an eye. This is an active wiki so I believe 5 days is plenty of time to scribble ~~~~ as can be seen by User:Jonathan Webley. Still remembering how Ncik's request lasted 2 months with no interest I was not about to play the part of the fool so I withdrew. It also brought some closure as it stopped me from checking the page only to see nothing different. It's fine for people to say they were going to give support, but I'm not a mind reader, I only know what I see on the page. Am I impatient? Yes, very much so, as Ec pointed out I quickly reverted Ncik's edits to WT:ELE. But I also made an attempt to talk to him by inviting him discuss what he was doing. I was also quick to start removing those dammed extra lines, but I used the edit summary to clearly state what I was doing; easy for admins to revert. Would I have made a good admin? I don't know, but I do know I won't be accepting any admin nominations any time soon. This is not something I want to go through again. I don't need the delete button, and I can ask someone else to edit protected pages for me. The other admin tools are useless (at least on this wiki).

I don't want this to become a list of I was going to vote, I didn't see it, etc. (probably wouldn't anyway, but just in case) 'cos it doesn’t mater now. What's done is done. I was fully aware of what I was doing and I do not regret it. Gerard Foley 01:09, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Language/Babel

Can we add a format requirement for new admin requests, that they specify the languages they know (i.e. their "Babel" levels)? --Connel MacKenzie T C 21:08, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea. This is probably the project where babel is the most useful. Jon Harald Søby 21:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

OK. Thanks for adding them in. On my screen, the table columns got scrunched too much; I reformatted it with a combined notes/Babel column instead, which seems to work better. --Connel MacKenzie T C 03:14, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Voting requirements

Is there any suggested number of edits a user should have here before being able to vote? I vuagely recall a "50-edits" minimum but I can't seem to find the relevant conversation.

It would be nice to also exclude any votes from editors who have been blocked, but that would rule me out since I blocked myself when I first became a sysop. Perhaps votes could be invalidated if 20% or more of that user's entries are nominated for deletion (or deleted on sight.)

Sysops votes still are given no more weight than regular contributors, right? We should spell that out somewhere. --Connel MacKenzie T C 21:50, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

x-edits minimum is a good idea, to reduce the chance of sockpuppets and also it should only be people who work on Wiktionay voting, not random people from Wikinews here by invite! As for excluding any votes from editors who have been blocked, what's the thinking behind that? Gerard Foley 00:06, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking of it as an indication that someone has acted in bad faith. But thinking more about it, that might unfairly exclude anonymous IPs, and that would not be good. --Connel MacKenzie T C 00:13, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

With regards to "random people from Wikinews" (or any other metawiki site, for that matter), what about user's who truly plan on being here for a while, and are also trusted to make a solid assessments of users? I am an administrator on Wikipedia, I'm just curious to know if I should wait for the 50 edit limit, or if my standing on an other project is enough to convince everyone that I am not a sock puppet, or a user who is "stacking votes." Also this is not to try and go around the 50 edit count rule, just a curiosity question, for future reference with regards to this project. KnowledgeOfSelf 05:22, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I would guess "no, you shouldn't wait" but that seems to be entirely up to Eclecticology, which is why I'm asking these questions. --Connel MacKenzie T C 07:12, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Responding to various points above:

1. I don't think that we have an agreed minimum number of edits a person should have before his vote is taken seriously, but I would certainly look at it more closely if he has fewer than 50. A person with very few edits could have a chance to redeem himself by making that many edits between the nomination and decision times. Making 50 edits to article spaces here is not difficult. Of course, I would tend to discount edits which do nothing but spam the list to vote for the candidate.
2. You need to make a distinction between voters who "are blocked" and "have been blocked", but realistically this does not involve very many people. I make a point of being aware of whose comments should be taken with a grain of salt, such as the one user who was already desysopped for cause, but his vote is still only one vote.
3. If we are talking strictly about "voting" a sysop's vote should not have more weight than that of any other user, but sysops are often more aware of the misbehaviour of nominees. Their comments on that have to be taken into account.
4. The comments of others who are not regular contributors about someone's misbehaviour will at least tell me that I should investigate what they say. If I find that they really did behave badly elsewhere that will affect my decision, even if it means going against the majority. I seldom will go against the majority, but there are times when that will be necessary, and I will always give reasons why. On the other hand, I make a point of not participating in the voting while it is proceding, and privately discuss difficult cases with the other bureaucrat.
5. The 50 edit rule-of-thumb is not just about sockpuppets; it's also about commitment to this particular project. I really don't think that a person whose wiki editing is focused elsewhere should have a strong influence here.
6. I do like to wait until there are least 10 people who have had a say on a nomination before moving ahead either way it. When there are fewer involved the nomination should probably fail for lack of interest. Waiting a month for that to happen is not waiting a long time.

Eclecticology 01:38, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

And Paul G, of course, could give sysophood if he really wanted. --Dangherous 20:41, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

New table look

Connel's new table layout looks horrible. There's no space between the cells in some areas, but in others there's too much. The addition of the Babel column has also made some rows taller than others. I'm considering changing it back to how it was. --Primetime 03:42, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

What? I didn't add any columns. --Connel MacKenzie T C 07:14, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the <br />'s that you seem to have been complaining about? All better? --Connel MacKenzie T C 07:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

You don't have to get your panties in a roll over it. I was just trying to make the page look better. You seem like you're about to cry.
--Primetime 07:26, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

What?

I have no serious objection to the way the table looks. Eclecticology 00:47, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Admins for simple English Wiktionary

Would anyone here be interested in checking the Simple English Wiktionary every 24 - 48 hours for vandalism? I have been doing this but I'm starting to get sick of it. Any takers? Gerard Foley 01:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Does it have an RC IRC feed? If so, I'll make and set tawkbot3 to monitor it and post changes. Tawker 07:32, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know. Gerard Foley 13:42, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

All Wikimedia projects have. [1] (in this case, [2] Jon Harald Søby 16:32, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Also there is now a Counter Vandalism channel for Simple English Wikipedia: #vandalism-simple-wp. That may come in very handy. -- Psy guy 21:35, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

The channel is filtered by one of my IRC bots, it should flag most of the vandalism without having to manually check every single edit -- Tawker 17:05, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Danny

I'd like to note here that he is a sysop, at least technically. I don't know who he is but I assume he is the same as w:User:Danny. — Vildricianus 16:15, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, its Danny, Board Member, Steward, Oversight / whatever else he can be flagged with. -- Tawker 20:04, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I know. Not a sysop anymore. — Vildricianus 12:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Help needed

On the entry for Jahbulon, I have made a change that I feel is justified. I posted my reasoning on the talk page. The change was reverted. I have repeatedly asked for justification for the revert, but no one will respond. If I un-revert to my version, it is simply reverted out of hand with no justification... what can I do? I do not want to get into a revert war, but I have little option if the other side in the argument will not discuss. Blueboar 17:38, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

That change has been rolled back by three separate sysops (myself included) as a POV edit. Not all have commented on the talk page as I have (and had previously!) but then again, for such a POV edit, I would not expect a comment or explanation would seriously be expected. --Connel MacKenzie 17:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Note

the user creation log shows users who could be sockpuppets. Geo.plrd 20:50, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Resignation

Hoi! Just posting here to explain that I've resigned as administrator and checkuser here on the English Wiktionary. The reason for this is that I don't feel that I have been nearly as active as I should have been, and that there are other people here doing a much better job than I do. I was made admin during the worst period of exinogoogleindexingcornt spam, and checkuser during the worst period of Wonderfool sockpuppeting. However, both these things seem to have calmed down now, so my services are no longer required (gosh, that sounds too formal). Anyways, I (hope nobody mind that I) retain the right to help if anything like that should ever occur again. Jon Harald Søby 16:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

More resignation

It goes without saying that I've been rather inactive lately. I'd rather return to my old duties of yore, but more urgent matter is awaiting me now. I'm already ex-sysop, and hereby bombastically leave the ship. Cheers to all, and keep up the good work! — Vildricianus 22:18, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Archive

Where is the archive for previous requests for adminship?--Jusjih 12:41, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Good question. You might be able to find some attached at the bottom of WT:VOTE, at least for requests that happened after that page was initiated. --EncycloPetey 00:36, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately not all votes are readily visible there so we have to dig through the page history to get all archives. This is why I have not even archived completed admin votes.--Jusjih 16:09, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Requirements!?

Can anyone please tell me normally what requirements must someone meet in order to become an admin? Please answer me in my talk page in English or Malay Wikipedia. I seldom come here. Of course, you have to write here too. --Edmund the King of the Woods! 09:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, active participation is usually a key. DAVilla 22:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

But, let's say, how many edits? --Edmund the King of the Woods! 17:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Editcounts are very misleading - possibly the worst measure of what makes a good admin. Showing understanding and agreement with Wiktionary goals (especially, as opposed to Wikipedia goals) is an important factor, which usually cannot be gauged in less than a few months. Causing disruption or generating controversy (especially if long-winded) is an indication of one who would make a very bad admin. Having a block-able username (such as one that contains "King",) is a good way to never be considered. Seeking the status of being an admin, rather than seeking to contribute meaningfully, is another way to prevent nominations. Many contributors value politeness very highly. But then, if edits are all controversial or generate a lot of side discussions, even politeness won't help. --Connel MacKenzie 17:58, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

(after edit conflict) The number of edits is (largely) irrelevant. My personal guidelines, which I suspect are broadly similar to those of others here, are

• You've been actively participating at Wiktionary for a while (at least a month in most cases), making constructive edits
• You understand at least the basic policies and conventions
• You understand at least the basic formatting structure of Wiktionary entries and get it right at least most of the time (I don't expect perfection, so don't worry about that!)
• You show that you learn from your mistakes.
• You show a willingness to learn what you don't know and ask for help, advice and other opinions where needed
• You get on well with all or almost the people you interact with, particularly established users (personality conflicts can happen, but do try not to antagonise them if they do)
• You understand that other users may not know as much as you, or conversely, may know more than you do; and interact with them accordingly.

This is just a guide not set criteria, because everyone is different the same criteria cannot apply to everyone. What is most important is that I feel giving you admin tools will not harm Wiktionary. Thryduulf 18:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

This might not help you very much, but my internal test is, I should be slightly surprised to realize that the editor isn't already an administrator, given: (1) how much they contribute; (2) for how long they've contributed; (3) how encouraging and mentor-y they are to other editors, especially new editors; (4) how accepting they are of policy decisions they disagree with (or at least, how capable they are of acting in accordance with decisions they don't really accept); (5) how seriously they seem to take the project and its goals and ideals; (6) how well they seem to recognize where Wiktionary's current weaknesses are, and more important, where they are not. —Ruakh_TALK 18:57, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

What is the standard?

For users who want to become admins, what is the minimum amount of edits required to be considered? Because i am a very good user and know how to use ALOT of CSS and HTML, but i only have 100 edits (and ive only been here 1 day, nice). So, whats the minimum so i know what to go for before i can become an admin? Please, for the love of Buddha, reply on my talk page.

The2DeadlySins^Pride_Envy

Did you read the section above this one, where the same question was asked? --EncycloPetey 01:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Missing sysop

User:Mglovesfun is not present in this list. Malafaya 16:25, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Requested edit

Protected template Please amend Template:Otherwiki to add Wikivoyage. Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:00, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

There is no Template:Otherwiki (or Template:otherwiki), nor was there ever (unless the deletion log was hidden for some reason).​—msh210℠ (talk) 07:14, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

I think the template he wants edited is {{sisterprojects}}. —Angr 15:13, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Noticeboard?

I edit content here but have not figured out where (and what) all the procedural things are.

Just a heads-up to possibly expect PoV-pushing, counterfactual original research, and editwarring at the article logical quotation (and perhaps related pages). A long-term "slow-editwar" type, Darkfrog24, who has been tendentious for 6+ years against logical quotation at en.wikipedia, has turned into a non-stop editwarring and disruption machine for three days running at the Manual of Style over there, as well as the w:en:Quotation marks in English article, and then also turned to the article here, to push the same stuff.

The modus operandi is denial in the face of all sourcing that logical quotation and (Oxford/Hart's/Fowler's) British-style punctuation can be anything but two names for exactly the same thing, going on an "I can't hear you", circular-argumentation, and prevarication campaign, involving falsification of what sources say, RfC disruption, and related behaviors. The editor refuses to acknowledge that just because some sources don't distinguish between the two styles (e.g., might say "the British style or logical quotation"), glossing over the differences because they're relevant in that context, that the styles must be the same, no matter what, and that sources that clearly do distinguish them, point by point, don't exist, don't say what they say, or can be ignored. It's quite a sight. Any attempt to reason with the person results in evasion, projection, proof by assertion, etc. I don't know if it's an act to get what they want, a competence problem, a trolling game or what. Almost has the character of a "go out in a blaze or glory" wikisuicide. The user even resumed to revert-warring and such after I opened an editwarring noticeboard case (action still pending) about their behavior. I'm not sure what to do over here on Wikitionary if they just move over here and escalate. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 05:40, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

We don't have a noticeboard, as you may have noticed, nor do we have cases or limitations on how much one can revert another editor. Vandalism reports can go to WT:VIP, but this seems to be a case of disagreement. If you want to bring the substantive issue to the community's attention, you can post at WT:TR. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 06:18, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Hopefully the issue will not arise. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 08:47, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

OTRS call for help

Dear colleagues. The volunteer response team (aka OTRS) is currently lacking volunteers to take care of questions regarding the sister projects wikibooks, wikinews, wikiquote and wiktionary. I'd like to invite you to volunteer at meta:OTRS/Volunteering. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Thank you in advance for considering. --Krd (talk) 09:25, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Bringing this up again. Anybody? --Krd (talk) 08:24, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

I can do it, but I'm not particularly interested. @Krd, why don't you bring this up at WT:BP instead? —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 19:10, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

I didn't really know where to post it, but thanks for the hint, done now. --Krd (talk) 08:00, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

self-request for de-adminship

Hello, many years ago i have worked quite a bit here on en.wikt, but i have not really been editing on this project anymore in years and especially haven't used my admin rights for anything in a reaaally long time. Please remove my admin flag and turn me into a regular user. Thank you. Mutante (talk) 22:38, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

@Stephen G. Brown, if you will. --Daniel Carrero (talk) 23:54, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Done. —Stephen ^(Talk) 01:14, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Fwiw

Given the cliquey way the place is run, I don't assume anything will happen in the near future, but I'll leave a note that User:DTLHS is abusing their status as an admin to lock in malformatted entries here, here, here, here, and here. If any other admins notice that none of those are "references", you're welcome to fix it since I can't anymore. If they continue to abuse their status in other entries, here's another preëxisting strike to keep in mind. Naturally, if they're generally a decent sort and were just having a rough patch with this needless edit warring, this can sink into the archives. — LlywelynII 16:28, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Well, they're not citations, so the way you were formatting them was definitely wrong. But WT:References#Wiktionary:What counts as a reference? says that references are secondary sources, and what you're listing is a secondary source, so I see no reason to deny it's a reference. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:49, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

DTLHS is correct that quotations must be in the language to which the word they are being used to support is claimed to belong. This is a criterion for inclusion: a term must be used in running text, not just mentioned. (Mentions of the sort you added can serve as references to cite words in extinct languages, but Spanish is a "well-documented" language for which it's necessary to have uses — fortunately, it took me almost no time to find and add uses of cáscara.) - -sche (discuss) 02:34, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

abuse filter for avoiding level 2 header references: feature or bug?

There's a possible bug in one of the abuse filters running on en.wiktionary. This is quite low priority for me personally, but it could bother other Wiktionarians. See the first section of Appendix talk:List of protologisms/A–F for documentation of the bug (simplest test with a source-level editor (not wysiwyg), just adding a space). The text I wanted to add can probably safely sit on the talk page there as the second section: it doesn't seem like covfefe has a serious chance at a long-term life span. Boud (talk) 21:29, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

sub-admin rights

Would I ask here for sub-admin rights? Specifically, page deletion. I've moved several misspelled Hadza entries, but had to leave a rd behind. Would be nice to clean such things up as I go along. kwami (talk) 08:19, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

AFAIK, people can't be granted rights individually, only roles. There are different roles that have different features available. I don't think there is a role allowing deletion without being (at least) an admin. Correct me if I'm wrong... Equinox ◑ 16:51, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. It looks like template-editing rights are separate, though. What's involved in getting those? kwami (talk) 19:31, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Graduate project needs admins to interview

Hey everyone. I'm sending this message out because a graduate student at De Haagse Hogeschool reached out on WP:Discord. Kasparas Litinskas is doing his graduate project on user engagement in large crowdsourced communities. It's part of a larger initiative to study and develop a data-structured language framework. As part of the project, he is conducting short interviews to understand the ways that administrators on Wikimedia sites operate and how they handle certain critical situations as well as the tools they use to tackle these problems.
If you are interested, please email him at [3].
Cheers! –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 23:14, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Notice of Resignation

I resign from the rank of wiki administrators, effective at least immediately.

My first and main reason is, that I regret adding a few sentences of words from Falun Dafa's founder and master, Li Hongzhi, against his wishes. Not only did I add Teacher Li's words to a few English entries, but I also added them to two websites, the names of which I won't disclose for privacy reasons.

The second reason is, that I may have hurt the feelings of user Wyang (talk • contribs), which could be one of the reasons for his leaving Wiktionary.

Such conduct has been unbecoming of an administrator for a wiki.

The third reason is the fact, that I was made an admin as part of a joke by likely Wonderfool.

The fourth reason is to start again with a new account. As Buddha Shakyamuni may have said, "No matter how hard the past, you can always begin again."

I have yet to come up with a new username for the new account. Best Wishes. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 19:50, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

I came up with a new username: Apisite. Now I have to come up with a password. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 07:23, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Since you are publicly announcing the new name anyway, you might consider having the existing account renamed rather than creating a separate new one and leaving a dead unlinked account behind. Equinox ◑ 07:53, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm still going to contribute using the account Apisite. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 08:08, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Wiktionary administrators, will the resignation be accepted? Or will it be refused no matter what? --Apisite (talk) 09:35, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

You should probably ask someone directly who has the power to deadministrate you. DTLHS (talk) 15:52, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

@Hippietrail, SemperBlotto, Chuck Entz How about it? --Apisite (talk) 03:32, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

I could quibble with your reasons: the first one is irrelevant, because it has nothing to do with any action as an admin, the second is unfounded- Wyang's reasons for leaving are far more complex and go back much farther than you realize, and the third is also irrelevant- regardless of how you were nominated, a vote is what made you an admin- the community wanted you to be an admin. But really, it doesn't matter what your reasons are: we're all volunteers here, so I've done what you've asked. Thank you for your service. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:56, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

@Apisite I wouldn't blame myself for Wyang's departure, if I were you. Since you're still with us with a new name, it's not a goodbye, is it? Thank you for your contributions. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:11, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz After the Fa Teaching at the 2016 New York Fa Conference, during the section for questions and answers, Li Hongzhi warned against posting his lectures on the Internet, in general, without his permission; they could only be in articles at the Minghui websites. --Apisite (talk) 04:35, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

You are being too harsh on yourself; I agree with Chuck. Remember to take care of yourself, OK? —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 05:20, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c At least I have a part-time job. --Apisite (talk) 11:12, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

Resignation: TAKASUGI Shinji

Here I resign as administrator. I’m sorry I’ve been quite inactive since the end of 2019 because my area of interest drastically changed then. I contribute sporadically and answer when I’m pinged, but I can’t be so active as an administrator should be anymore. Thank you all for your support, and good luck. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 12:04, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@Hippietrail, SemperBlotto, Chuck Entz Kutchkutch (talk) 12:34, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. I requested it on Meta. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 10:36, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@TAKASUGI Shinji As above, this isn't really a goodbye, so it seems like the Wiktionary:Bureaucrats are reluctant to perform this action. Kutchkutch (talk) 10:47, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

• Best of luck, Shinji. I've appreciated your contributions and insights, and I hope to still work with you here at EN Wikt, even if in a more limited fashion. Cheers! ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 03:30, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

A report on User:Vahagn Petrosyan

He deleted my template Template:hy-decl-pron-pl that I made for Armenian reciprocal pronouns, which have a specific declension table.[4]. There were no clear arguments against it and it was done in about a couple days. Clearly, it wasn't nonsense, since we kept arguing on my talk page, where I had to provide my arguments with references to grammar books and websites. He made an argument against the fact that those pronouns are plural, which, OK, is indeed arguable, although I believe they are (read my proofs on the talk page), but surely the table itself shouldn't have been deleted and no arguments were made against it. I am sure this abruptness offends the Wiktionary guidelines. Also, I invite you to see the history of his recent "contributions". Words like 'removing nonsense' surely are not descriptive when removing a non-meaningless contribution and are very demoralizing. I also wrote my arguments for that contribution on his talk page. Please take measures. Injustice must be stopped. GareginRA (talk) 23:48, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

A Continuation of Privilege Abuse by Administrator User:Vahagn Petrosyan

On 11/6/2021 23:07:00 (all times are in UTC) I was banned on the grounds of 'Disruptive edits'. The duration of the ban was 31 hours. No description of which particular edits were meant was added. Later on my Discussion page it was specified, that should my actions continue, I will receive a longer ban. Let's analyze my latest edits and find out, which of them were disruptive (if any) and if they did deserve a ban.

First of all, we are not going to analyze edits that were not reverted or heavily altered, since there is no indication of disruptiveness or any objection. That is, most edits in all categories but those which had the word 'Armenian' in the name.

My latest reverted edit was one on page -ան at 21:27, 6 November 2021. You can see my additions if you compare that version with the next, which is the rollback of 23:06, 6 November 2021. My contribution consisted of adding a definition which is widely known in Armenia, as it is not only an inflection ending but also a declension name in the Armenian traditional grammar. page 13 [5] This should be enough to ensure that my edit did not carry any disruptive intentions. The rollback conveyed the usual message "Reverted edits by GareginRA. If you think this rollback is in error, please leave a message on my talk page.". Unfortunately, I had no chance to object the revert on the said talk page as I was already banned.

Next last reverted edit was on the page -ն at 21:13, 6 November 2021. Here I added a small literal translation to one of the quotations. The followed action of User:Vahagn Petrosyan consisted of removing the literal translation, enlarging the quotation and providing translation to it. No objections were raised. The new translation even used my entire literary translation. Therefore I must conclude, that in the admin's view, providing a literary translation is a disruptive act that should invoke measures.

Third last reverted edit took place on page գոյական (17:43, 6 November 2021). (I use the word reverted in the broad sense, not only clean reverts but also partial deletions that followed right after my contributions.) What I did there is I added to the definition "shortening of գոյական անուն (goyakan anun)" (literally, existing name (see nomen#Latin), probably a calque of Russian имя существительное), what I had learned to be true. I now should say, that that action might have been an inaccuracy (most dictionaries describe գոյական and գոյական անուն as synonyms). I added that phrase because the entry only had the noun term, however the ending of the word is adjectival (-ական). My intentions there, once again, were positive and not disruptive. And I don't think that inaccuracies should be counted as disruptive edits. This website is built on people adding new info and correcting each other. Regular users should not be expected to perform perfect accuracy. It is up to more experienced users to correct them, but no one has an obligation. We will get to this later.

Next stop, -անք. I performed two separate additions to that page, both of which were, by the most part, reverted. My first addition (20:19, 5 November 2021‎) consisted of two newly added definitions, one of which was saved (so, I guess, only a half-disruption took place, very cunning of me). The deleted definition was "forming first-person plural aorist indicative of ա (a) conjugated verbs (see -ալ (-al))". The followed reaction claimed that that was nonsense. However, it is a well known verb ending (page 174) that is even used in Template:hy-conj-ալ. Linguistically, those are suffixes, but Armenian tradition puts them in a category of "endings" (see վերջավորություն). I wouldn't mind if the added definition were reclassified, but instead it was deleted and claimed to be nonsense. I tried to object that issue at User talk:Vahagn Petrosyan#About 'removing nonsense' (on -անք), but it wasn't fruitful. The second edit (17:11, 6 November 2021) touched the definition that was kept and broadened its sense. I previously formulated that -անք was added to animate nouns, however I realized that it wasn't only nouns, since some pronouns also use that ending. Therefore, I added that to the definition and provided an example of ոմանք. The edit was fully reverted adding "does not operate synchronically, therefore no such suffix in modern Armenian". My objections for the revert were raised at User talk:Vahagn Petrosyan#Regarding your latest revert on -անք, where I provided other (or different) examples: սրանք, դրանք and նրանք. That was admitted to be probable, with a following comment: "And don't say I should have replaced your incorrect example instead of reverting. It is your responsibility to edit correctly.", which once again shows that, in that admin's view, users are obliged to perform perfectly, or else get reverted and banned. I am still confused about how much disruption I have conveyed there. The definition is still inaccurate.

Next last altered edit, creation of հարկադրական. The page was then enhanced with a correction of an overlooked error. No objections were raised.

Next last altered edit, creation of պարզել. The page was enhanced and partly corrected with a comment "don't link to regular morphological endings in etymologies; also, per WT:SG "A simple gloss should not be capitalized and should not end with a period."". I followed that advice.

Next last altered edit, creation of ծեգ. The page was enhanced and partly corrected with a comment "don't add pronunciation for words you do not know how to pronounce". I, in fact, only had a guess as the word was new to me. (Once again blaming me for my lack of perfection instead of just correcting the inaccuracy.) Anyway, I followed that advice.

Next last, a correction on իրար (20:28, 5 November 2021). The correction took place after no arguments were provided in the discussion section (or anywhere else) for including իրարու as an inflection of իրար. In fact, no inflection tables of իրար mention իրարու (column 2 in the table; page 76, section 109, second par.). The word իրարու is mentioned separately in Armenian dictionaries[6] and, when used, completely substitutes իրար. It is an alternative version, but not an inflectional form of իրար. Similar dichotomy concerns մեկմեկի vs. մեկմեկու (columns 4 and 5). All of these arguments were provided but the followed respond only included arguments from intimidation, such as "it is too soon for you to make major changes to Wiktionary or to argue with me". I have abstained from further corrections on that page, since I knew what would follow.

Next last edits concerned իրար and միմյանց, which are reciprocal pronouns that inflect specifically. I have created a table template for them, which was later deleted. This issue is described in the previous report. Basically, the template was deleted in a matter of hours with little due discussion. That violates Wiktionary:Page_deletion_guidelines, in part that says "Administrators have no special status in determining which pages to delete. Their job is to implement the consensus of the community. If there is any uncertainty about whether there is such a consensus, it is safer not to delete the page, but instead flag it RFD or RFV." Of course there was uncertainty, since I wasn't even notified about a possible deletion and no one else have raised (or supported) an objection. I was only notified after the deletion took place, at User:GareginRA#Template:hy-decl-pron-pl (follow to see more arguments in favor of the table and the discussion that took place).

21:55, 1 November 2021‎, an addition on նոր. My addition was labeled (dialectal), no other objections were raised. I do not object either.

19:24, 1 November 2021, my edit on pilaster that was altered, cutting transliteration and script code for the Armenian translation. I think, this particular case can be counted as settled, since the issue is more general and the discussion has moved to other pages. In simple words, transliteration parameter tr= for Template:t is overridden for Armenian translations and disallowed. I made a comment on the issue at Template talk:t#Transliteration parameter. I returned the attribute for peer-review, but it was reverted again. I accepted that, since history versions are enough for the review.

Next last altered edit, noun sense addition for ազգային, 18:05, 1 November 2021‎. The addition was first reverted with a comment "doesn't exist; you are again relying on rubbish dictionaries". After a discussion the noun sense was returned, but heavily altered. I still don't completely understand why national is wrong for that definition. But you can see a pattern. The first reaction is a deletion, then a user has to object the revert, after which they can only hope for a partial restoration.

Next, պայծառ, 22:38, 27 October 2021. An added derived term. Altercation followed with a comment: "this was formed already in Old Armenian; remove link from the simple word "brightness"". Apparently, Armenian and Old Armenian պայծառ are completely different words in the mind of Vahagn, since derivatives are cancelled. Immense disruption. I mean, even if it were a mistake, it's not like I made the same mistake for a thousandth time.

There were many more reverted edits, some of which I agreed to, but those were already more than two weeks before the ban. Keep in mind, that I skipped all contributions that are in current versions and those whose edits were mostly untouched. You can find out more in my contributions.

PS. In case you think that my arguments are invalid and my sources are indeed rubbish, I want to remind you that the "truth" propagated by Vahagn is actually just a view on the things and Wiktionary shouldn't comply with it absolutely (especially so considering the lack of provided arguments from that side). Alternative views have always deserved a mention and/or discussion. GareginRA (talk) 16:45, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

I tried medium-hard to see an abuse portrayed in this your motion and don’t discern any. You are just too obtuse to recognize why you are wrong. It’s not just a view, you yourself see that perfect performance is aimed at and quality is not a myth. But your view on where this is reached is inerudite, “you conclude” bare strange views. Your exposition on -ն is designed to misled: He switched the parameter |lit= to |t= but you let it appear like a copyright violation. You are trying trench wars here. When people disagree and explain, it it is wrong because it is not “your squad”. If you test the tribalist ting of course you get war, and lose: You weren’t good at portraying alternative views. Apparently the historical view Vahagn tried hard to distinguish got lost and then you complain. Fay Freak (talk) 18:23, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

@Fay Freak, there was a misunderstanding in User talk:Vahagn Petrosyan#ազգային. Of course it is better to put several words in gloss. The issue was, that the definition was deleted completely (at first) and my translation was considered wrong, which it isn't.[7][8]. The rest of your answer is biased misunderstanding. Please, try to read closer. I don't mislead, I am just providing examples of altered edits, and it is up to the reader to find disruption (the formal reason for the ban) in my edits. I am not saying, that Vahagn's edit of changing lit= to t= was wrong. Instead, I am inviting you to find disruption in providing literal translation before the altercation. GareginRA (talk) 19:10, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Mon Wiktionary for admin

I would like to ask what qualifications do I need to apply to be a Mon Wiktionary admin, Mon Wiktionary is currently very weak and I want to protect it, I am the only one who writes many dictionary articles on Mon Wiktionary. Mon Wiktionary admin It's not easy to vote because so many people are jealous of me, if can not choose me as Mon Wiktionary admin, I would like to have a admin like me who can watch Mon Wiktionary full time every day, although I did a lot of work on Mon Wiktionary, I was very upset that I was not recognized, because Mon Wiktionary is a Mon language, I think I have a lot of responsibilities, so I will continue to work on Mon Wiktionary no matter who is not good to me, thanks.--Music writer Dr.Intobesa of Japanese idol NMB48 and BNK48. (talk) 11:47, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Living with the Double Standard

@Chuck Entz, Equinox, Theknightwho (& ping whomever else): I want to share an example of an alarming type of experience that I have had over the previous several years on Wikipedia/Wiktionary. In this edit, I have absolutely no choice but to alter wording [9][10] of a comment I have written. The problem with Wiki world is so intense, I am reticent to even describe the comment. But yet: here- [11] I am told "Something's wrong with you. Go to hell."
There is something rotten in Denmark, my friends. There is a 'standard for me and a standard for thee'. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:57, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

I am not an admin, I'm afraid, though I agree that you shouldn't have been treated like that. Theknightwho (talk) 11:41, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

It's a double double standard for me, bc I have some history of getting aggressive with people on here (it's alcohol-related!). I guess I get away with it because I do huge amounts of useful work on the project, and I mostly attack problems like spammers and protologisms. But I'm aware I am a bit of a loose cannon. @Geographyinitiative: we have interacted a few times and as far as I'm concerned, you are cool... my standard is purely "good faith": sometimes somebody with good faith makes mistakes, and sometimes somebody with no good faith manages to do good work (basically Wonderfool, who always ends up vandalising). We are all terrible human beings. I guess I'll help you if I can, but I've got no control over things either. Equinox ◑ 06:11, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@Equinox – Not commenting on the overarching issue here. Self-awareness is a valuable asset to bring to any type of collaborative project. It's a lot easier to find solutions when the involved parties are willing to critically consider their own actions, knowledge, biases, etc., and recognize when they may not be in an ideal position to engage constructively. (There's a reason I sometimes disappear for long periods.) I've only seen the proverbial cannon come unbolted from the deck in mainspace once, and that was resolved with a mild talk-page admonishment. A long history of good-faith contributions helps smooth over an occasional lapse in judgment. WordyAndNerdy (talk) 21:45, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

• @Geographyinitiative You are correct that present and past admins have a history of being unkind to non-admins. Oh, the stories I could tell! At least two different editors made up rules that didn't exist and insisted I follow them. Purplebackpack89 21:15, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

I cannot imagine the stress of trying to take any kind of leadership role on a website open to the general public. Anyway, I appreciate the hard work that is done to make the place as good as it is. My complaint is minor compared to any other place on the internet. I'm just spoiled by my overall good experience here. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 22:46, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

jew

Please check pages jew and jew down for vandalism. Perhaps indefinite semiprotect advisable. --Krd (talk) 19:29, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Jew is not a verb and should not be listed as such. Referencing it as a verb and derivatives as a verb such as the page listed above are extremely offensive and should not be normalized with a definition on this site. Having those listed here just further spreads antisemitism. Please do the right thing and set up an accurate definition of Jew as only a noun and do not make mention of any offensive uses of the word or offensive derivatives. The definition should also be protected from further edits after the definition has been corrected. 2600:1700:B17:93F:2197:8564:4C56:75E1 16:50, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

This is an uncensored, descriptive dictionary. Jew is and has been used as a verb. Yes, such usage is offensive and wrong, but it exists. You can't just unilaterally change the result of two decades of consensus because you disagree. See WT:NOT. Chuck Entz (talk) 20:17, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz - You are wrong. Jew is not a verb. People make up words and definitions all the time. Feel free to look at Urban Dictionary to find all kinds of made up definitions for things. Wikipedia has more credibility than a site like Urban Dictionary and therefore has a greater responsibility to be accurate about this sort of thing; especially when false information can lead to dangerous outcomes such as normalizing and spreading antisemitism. 2600:1700:B17:93F:24F2:FD11:2926:CC58 17:40, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

All words are "made up" at some point. The verb "jew" has existed for many decades or even centuries and is not a new Internet invention, anyway. You can find it in long-established professional dictionaries like OED and Chambers. Go check them please. Equinox ◑ 17:43, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

@Equinox- I have not had a chance yet to review OED, but Chambers does not have "jew" listed as a verb. It is only a noun and the definitions listed there reflect that. 2600:1700:B17:93F:24F2:FD11:2926:CC58 18:07, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

It is in Chambers: "to cheat or get the better of in a bargain". I'm not using the Internet (like you probably did, as most woke whiners do): I'm using the real dictionary I paid money for. 1994 edition. →ISBN. Equinox ◑ 03:33, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

This sense is indeed in the OED (link to the 1901 public domain edition): "Jew, v. colloq. […] To cheat or overreach, in the way attributed to Jewish traders or usurers.". It's definitely an offensive meaning, and I don't mean to condone it, but it's a way the word has actually been used in the wild, and as such I don't see any reason to avoid documenting it. 70.172.194.25 23:40, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

This is a dictionary, not a moral code. People should have the opportunity to find and discuss the meaning of offensive terms as well. Your claim doesn't apply to vandalism. In fact, it would be vandalism if someone deleted those entries. --GareginRA (talk) 07:17, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

@GareginRA - I'm not saying that offensive terms don't have a place to be documented, but the offensive terms here are not accurate definitions. All these are serving is to spread hate, not to speak of it objectively as you are alluding to. 2600:1700:B17:93F:24F2:FD11:2926:CC58 17:43, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Even if you were right that the definition is incorrect (which you are not), labelling it as offensive does exactly the opposite of what you are claiming, because it makes it clear that those who actually use it are spreading hate. Your attitude reminds me of people who think that pointing out racism is racist, and that we should just pretend it doesn’t exist. Theknightwho (talk) 17:59, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

@Theknightwho That is not at all the case. Feel free to put into the definition that "jew" is not a verb if you want that extra clarification. I just would like to see the definition be accurate and right now, it is not. And your comments about my "attitude" are confusing because pointing out racism is exactly what I'm doing. 2600:1700:B17:93F:24F2:FD11:2926:CC58 18:05, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Just saying "it isn't a verb" doesn't make it so. We work on evidence, here, and there is plenty there. Theknightwho (talk) 18:07, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Evidence: https://chambers.co.uk/search/?query=jew&title=21st 2600:1700:B17:93F:24F2:FD11:2926:CC58 18:10, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

That's not evidence of anything, because we don't remove things on the basis of what other dictionaries have. The usage quotations that we have are, though. Theknightwho (talk) 18:38, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

So then what evidence do you use to add things? I provided a legitimate source proving my point and you have yet to provide anything beyond your own opinion. 2600:1700:B17:93F:24F2:FD11:2926:CC58 18:54, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Click on the word "quotations" at the end of the definition line. Theknightwho (talk) 19:02, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

So your evidence are fiction novels and white supremacist Google conversations? You're joking, right? 2600:1700:B17:93F:24F2:FD11:2926:CC58 20:43, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

They're examples of real usage, which complies with WT:CFI. On the other hand, your argument would have us remove every entry we have that isn't in Chambers dictionary. Theknightwho (talk) 20:48, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

I just think you're choosing a strange hill to die on. I think there is somewhere between your non-evidence evidence and Chambers dictionary. Taking your "real usage" from fictional writing or from White Supremacists does not constitute fact. You're openly arguing for spinning the definition of a real word to be used in a way that is clearly hateful and not the true meaning of the word. I'm trying very hard not to make this personal about you or some of the others on here who have argued for keeping this definition, but it's hard not to think that you don't have a personal antisemitic agenda for keeping it. You spoke before about my attitude that pointing out racism is racist. Now I'm very directly calling you a racist. 2600:1700:B17:93F:E832:FA5E:53E5:962A 19:58, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm not choosing a strange hill to die on: I'm just explaining how WT:CFI works. Why would we make an exception here? This is the standard we use for all terms, whether or not you think they're real or not. Please do feel free to continue pretending that nasty terms don't exist, but we have no obligation to remove them on that basis. The fact that you cannot escape is that there are real-world examples of usage, and that's enough. Theknightwho (talk) 21:30, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Again, not "pretending that nasty terms don't exist". Just calling out that jew is a real word and it is a noun. There are real definitions of the word and those real definitions are not even listed. I originally was asking for what I thought was a simple correction, but what I got was a bunch of antisemites on a power trip. 2600:1700:B17:93F:48F0:C8C9:197A:C276 23:24, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

It's not antisemitic to note that that a term is used hatefully sometimes. Sorry. In fact, it's the precise opposite, because it prevents the people that use it that way from hiding behind plausible deniability. The sense you are looking for is probably the one under the noun section that says jew is an alternative form of Jew. Theknightwho (talk) 00:22, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

By the way, the OED (3rd edition, 2019) has:

1. transitive. To get or try to get the better of (a person) by charging too much or paying too little; to cheat or swindle (out of something); (occasionally) to haggle over (something). offensive.

2. intransitive. To get or try to get the better of a person by charging too much or paying too little; to haggle. offensive.

No doubt they look forward to your letter explaining to them that that it isn't real, despite the 10 attestations they have (which is fewer than Wiktionary, I might add). Theknightwho (talk) 00:33, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Are the quotations at Citations:jew more convincing? 70.172.194.25 23:11, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

He's back

Discussion moved to Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2023/June.

Resignation of my admin rights

I've only made one admin action since 2015 (and that was in 2019) - indeed I thought I had been desysopped for inactivity a couple of months back. I don't see my current low activity level as an editor here changing significantly (either way) in the near future, so now is probably a good time to hand the bits back. Thryduulf (talk) 19:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done. You've been a good editor and a good admin, but we're all volunteers here and you have every right to decide not to volunteer anymore. Chuck Entz (talk) 22:45, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Inactive administrator

Hi. According to Wiktionary:Administrators#Removal for inactivity administrator rights could be removed from users who have not used their rights for 5 years. This seems to be the case for User:Stephen G. Brown (last logged admin action on 6 February 2019). --Ameisenigel (talk) 20:08, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

@Benwing, Chuck Entz, EncycloPetey, Hippietrail, Paul G @Ruakh, SemperBlotto, Surjection: May one of you take a look at this, please? Thanks, --Ameisenigel (talk) 15:29, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done Confirmed, no admin activity since Feb 2019 and other conditions in policy are met. I see that this User was removed as a Bureaucrat by vote, but no action to remove his bureaucrat status appears in the Wiktionary logs. Despite this, a bureaucrat status was no longer checked in the rights. I must assume bureaucrat status was not removed locally. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:16, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Just for the record: removal of bureaucrat status. --Ameisenigel (talk) 21:16, 14 April 2024 (UTC)