[[*gʰeud-]]

Fragment of a discussion from User talk:Rua

Thank you; one further question: Whereas *ǵʰewd- (to pour) is supposedly the root of English gut, "The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World" gives *gudóm as "intestines," apparently the root of Sanskrit गुद. Unfortunately we don't have entries for either of these. Can you help? 173.89.236.187 23:27, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

173.89.236.18723:27, 11 May 2016

We have *ǵʰuto-, though.

CodeCat23:30, 11 May 2016

What is *ǵʰuto-'s relationship to *gudóm? There is no reference to "intestines" at *ǵʰuto-, whereas *gudóm is supposed to mean exactly that.

173.89.236.18723:37, 11 May 2016

From what I can tell, the "intestines" meaning is recent, and developed only in English.

CodeCat23:38, 11 May 2016

I fixed a couple of usages of *gheud-; there may be more.

Benwing2 (talk)23:41, 11 May 2016
 

No, as I said, The Oxford Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Proto-Indo-European World definitely gives the meaning of PIE "*gudóm" as "intestines." This source (which you probably have in your library) is available on Google Books. 173.89.236.187 23:41, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

173.89.236.18723:41, 11 May 2016

I found a bunch more sources indicating that PIE *gudom means "intestines, bowels, gut." We should make an entry for this term and re-check the PIE etymology assigned for English gut. I hope we would be checking these things before assigning cut-and-dried etymologies rather than, apparently, guessing without having all the PIE roots down first. Gut => gut does make a lot more sense than drain => gut.

173.89.236.18723:45, 11 May 2016

Please give the sources then. I'd like to check them as far as I'm able. More descendants would also help.

CodeCat23:47, 11 May 2016

I am not able to add links with the idiosyncratic way you have your talk page set up, though I have tried again and again to do so. On Google Books, the source "Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture" by Douglas Q. Adams contains "*gudóm" (intestine) as well as "*gut-r" meaning "throat," "*gutr" meaning "gullet, and other related terms. "*gheu" is given as meaning "pour." They seem like completely different words. I do recommend our re-examining the assignation of "*gheu" to the etymology of gut pending the creation of gudóm.

173.89.236.18723:54, 11 May 2016

Pokorny says "gut" comes from *ǵhewd; see http://indo-european.info/pokorny-etymological-dictionary/whnjs.htm.

Benwing2 (talk)00:13, 12 May 2016

Sorry, the proper link is http://indo-european.info/pokorny-etymological-dictionary/%C4%9Dheu.htm. You can include links by just pasting the raw link, without adding brackets or anything.

Benwing2 (talk)00:15, 12 May 2016
 
 

The gullet entry gives *gʷel- (which we also don't have an entry for) as PIE root.

173.89.236.18700:01, 12 May 2016

I agree with CodeCat here about sources. From what you've said, the Adams book doesn't appear to say that "gut" is derived from *gudom; the sources should explicitly make the link. What does Pokorny say, for example? PIE *g -> Germanic *g is unexpected. gut vs. gudom could be a coincidence (cf. have vs. Latin habēre). Note also that etymonline agrees with the derivation from *gheud (although this is not a primary source).

Benwing2 (talk)00:10, 12 May 2016
 

The relevant page in the Oxford book seems to be this, which gives a Low German reflex that starts with a k

Chuck Entz (talk)03:39, 12 May 2016