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Templates "missing" from appropriate category (Grease pit - March 2012)Edit

Can anyone help please? — Category:Greek adjective inflection-table templates should contain all those templates - but it doesn't, although the "cat" statement is contained in their "Documentation" pages. To take two examples with identical(?) formatting: Template:el-decl-adj-ος-ια-η-ο and Template:el-decl-adj-ός-ιά-ή-ό both show the "Catalogue" link at the bottom of their page - but only the latter is listed on the category page. — Saltmarshαπάντηση 05:07, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

That sort of inconsistency happens sometimes temporarily. If you don't want to wait for it to resolve itself, you can make a null edit to the page that isn't listed; for example, just now I visited Template:el-decl-adj-ος-ια-η-ο?action=edit and clicked "Save page", so now Category:Greek adjective inflection-table templates lists it. —RuakhTALK 19:34, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks - done - some of these were last edited in January and hadnt worked their way through. — Saltmarshαπάντηση 05:08, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
Oh. It used to be that they resolved themselves — or I thought they did — but maybe that's not true anymore, then? :-/   —RuakhTALK 13:39, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Category links within IF statements within templates (Grease pit - Feb 2011)Edit

I have added two conditional category statements to Template:el-noun adding relevant nouns to Category:Greek nouns of common gender and Category:Greek invariable nouns. Editing/creating a word (eg μαθηματικός adds it to the appropriate category - however viewing and not editing a prexisting word (eg υπάλληλος) shows the category at bottom of screen but it is not added to the category. Will this be put right as it works through the system? —Saltmarshαπάντηση 07:07, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, assuming it was done right (which looks to be the case).​—msh210 (talk) 08:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
FYI msh210 diff. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:13, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Creating a category using a variable (Grease pit - Jan 2011)Edit

{{ {{templateX}}{{{varY|}}} | ... }}
If the template templateX contains text "el-xyz-", and variable varX contains "abc" the expession above enables a template name "el-xyz-abc" to be generated on the fly. I have tried doing something similar to generate a category name, without success. Can anyone help please? —Saltmarshαπάντηση 16:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

[[Category:{{templateX}}{{{varY|}}}]] should work... —CodeCat 16:56, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks CodeCat - now working (see άσχημος). I think I was trying to include too much in "templateX". —Saltmarshαπάντηση 06:37, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
Is it possible to suppress an unwanted category generated for the "calling" template (Template:el-decl-adj) - if not I can probably make use of it. —Saltmarshαπάντηση 07:21, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
If you include a template that also adds a category, then you automatically get the category with it, there isn't really a way around that. But you can try giving the template a parameter that allows you to disable the categorisation, like so: {{#if:{{{nocat|}}}|<!-- do nothing -->|[[Category:Whatever]]}}CodeCat 11:28, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
Thank you again —Saltmarshαπάντηση 14:04, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Template:el-decl-adj (User talk:Opiaterein - Dec 2010)Edit

I notice that in the table structure in Template:el-decl-adj the header cell characters "!" towards the end - within the if-note structure - are contained within curly brackets thus "{{!}}". Is this because they are in a conditional statement or what? Please can you explain. Thanks —Saltmarshαπάντηση 07:18, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

That's the only place I've seen {{!}} before, with conditional sections of tables... But I've never worked on this template specifically.
Alright, yeah, after looking at it, that's exactly what it is. You need the {{!}} to hide the vocatives and comparatives if they aren't specified. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 15:55, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
thanks —Saltmarshαπάντηση 05:55, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
My pleasure, mate. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 13:46, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

"sorting" within categoriesEdit

{{DEFAULTSORT:αγαν}} sorts άγαν in Category:Greek adverbs under Ά instead of Α where it is wanted. Can {{el-adv}} be tweaked to achieve this, or must a sort argument be resorted to? thankyou, — Saltmarshαπάντηση 05:16, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

from{{#if:{{NAMESPACE}}||[[Category:Greek adverbs|{{{sort|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]]}}
to {{#if:{{NAMESPACE}}||{{#if:{{{sort|}}}|[[Category:Greek adverbs|{{{sort}}}]]|[[Category:Greek adverbs]]}}}}


Hi there, may I ask your advice about the inflections of this pronoun? My Greek grammar (Holton, Mackridge, et al) gives the alternative forms I have shown in the entry. They describe the usage of κάποιον (as a pronoun) but not the others. These forms are hardly mentioned elsewhere (the genitive plural alternatives seem almost non-existant in Google). I would be very grateful for your comments. Incidentally - I notice that Holton says that these forms in άλλος are used for emphasis. Saltmarsh (talk) 07:01, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

My impression is that these forms are used mainly (but not exclusively) in informal everyday speech. They are also mentioned in school textbooks, as in this small school dictionary. You can see these google results too. The parallel forms of other pronouns, ie αυτωνών (αυτών), ποιανών (ποιων), αλλωνών (άλλων), build IMHO a rather "concrete" set that cannot be ignored, especially as these forms are valuable when speakers want to avoid the confusion with their homophones (αυτόν, ποιον, άλλον, κάποιον). --flyax (talk) 11:03, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Language namesEdit

In English the names of languages are spelt with an initial u/c letter. Two of my Greek (and all my Greek-English) dictionaries use l/c. But Babiniotis uses u/c, is this an idiosyncrasy of that dictionary, a growing trend - or are both used? Saltmarshαπάντηση

The rule has not changed. My impression is that traditionally most people write language names with an initial l/c. This is IMHO. the most reasonable thing to do as language names are derived from their respective adjectives, e.g. αγγλικά (noun) < αγγλικός (adj.). Let's say that Bambiniotis suggested a change that most people didn't get to know or didn't care about or disagreed with. On the other hand, I remember you making a comment about the "anarchic" nature of Greek language, so yes, you could find people spelling language names with an initial capital letter either because they agree with Bambiniotis or they just like it more. --flyax (talk) 06:38, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Presentation of Katharevousa Greek in en:Wiktionary.Edit

from: Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2015/July#Presentation of Katharevousa Greek in en:Wiktionary.

I currently treat Katharevousa as shown here, entering it as an alternative form of the Standard Modern Greek one. Where an SMG form does not exist I would define it thus:

1. (Katharevousa) suitable translation

Does this seem the appropriate treatment. Are there better, different examples in other languages?

Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 05:39, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
There are two distinct "areas": "polytonic orthography" is the one and the other is "Katharevousa". "Katharevousa" has only "polytonic orthography" but "Demotic Greek" (official language of Greece since 1976) was also printed in "polytonic orthography" (officially until 1982). But there are polytonic forms that belong purely to "Demotic Greek" (βασιληᾶς or βασιλιᾶς). Also "Demotic Greek" is not a "descendant" of "Katharevousa". But there are many words created (most translated or transliterated) during the period where "Katharevousa" was official language and thus can be somehow stated that come from "Katharevousa". IMHO "Katharevousa" should be used only if form has only "polytonic orthography" and the printed word cannot be treated as a polytonic form of a word in use. Also "Katharevousa" is far more distinguished by her own set of grammatical and syntactical rules which cannot be "presented" in individual lemmas. (about the above mentioned example: Ἀριθμοί is the polytonic form of Αριθμοί which, in turn, comes from Ancient Greek Ἀριθμοί and not from "Katharevousa"). --Xoristzatziki (talk) 16:14, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
As a start, and by way of suggestion, I have made some changes to Αριθμοί and Ἀριθμοί. A suggested category might be Category:Polytonic Greek. Are there any views on whether "Polytonic spelling of" might be better than "Polytonic form of"?   — Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk 10:16, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Katharevousa grammarEdit

I just came across a nice website that has digitalised many school books, all of which can be freely downloaded. The website is: There are many grammar books on Katharevousa (both normal and "simple"), one of them being: (see page 42 of the PDF for words that decline more or less like αλώπηξ). Pretty much the same as Ancient Greek... — Orgyn (talk) 14:39, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Greek entriesEdit

from User talk:Barytonesis#Greek entries

@Saltmarsh: Yes, but I'm already spending too much time on Wiktionary so I don't want to get too invested in that. Furthermore, I have neither the computing skills nor the linguistic knowledge required to get us where I'd like to. That said, I'll try and give a few ideas. The Greek infrastructure doesn't rely enough on the common infrastructure and the cross-linguistic templates. This sometimes causes redundancies: {{el-seasons-of-the-year}} vs. {{table:seasons/el}}; {{el-days-of-the-week}} vs. {{table:days of the week/el}} (cf. {{table:days of the week}}); {{el-derivation}} can be replaced by {{suffixusex}} and {{prefixusex}}, etc. Another thing I find objectionable are the various templates such as {{el-R-arrow}}, {{el-link-ttip}}, {{el-lit}}, which in my view give off a rather "tinselly" impression. Also, I still think we could do without {{el-model-page}}, but I don't want to press the point too much. Sorry, that sounded harsher than I wanted to; I have trouble writing in an agreeable way, as you've already noticed :p. Rest assured that I appreciate all the work you're doing! I just think the infrastructure needs a little brush-up/clean-up, and that we have to keep the wikicode and the appearance as simple and uncluttered as possible. P. S.: I've noticed that {{el-freq-HNC}}, {{el-example}}, {{el-link-1}}, {{el-link-4-nd}} and {{el-ref-1}} are unused. --Barytonesis (talk) 22:22, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Aspect of Greek imperativesEdit

Q. How do you have a tense for an imperative? In English you can only say "Untie!" (or "Will you untie!"). Is there a different sense between λύνετε and λύστε (urgency, politeness, … ?) — Saltmarsh. 18:44, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Of course, of course @Saltmarsh: you are right: I am nurtured with imperative present and imperative past. The difference is so-called Present = keep doing this And the so-called Past: do this (once). (Imperfective and Perfective is correct---sorry!!!). … … sarri.greek (talk) 18:52, 13 April 2018 (UTC)