AG202

Welcome

Hi AG. I've left our standard welcome message below, as it has some links you may find useful. Please feel free to leave me a message or a ping if you have any questions about adding Yoruba to the dictionary, or want help with anything.

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Again, welcome! —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 06:48, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Yoruba and Odùduwà

What do you think of the possibility of the Unicode Consortium adding the Odùduwà alphabet into its repertoire? How could Yoruba's tones be taken into account, if at all?

I would imagine, that a line above the vowels could be used for the high tone, a line below the vowels for the low tone, and no diacritics for the middle tone. If the Unicode Consortium wants anything like that, then the tonal diacritics could be used in at least books for children and Yoruba language students. --Apisite (talk) 10:04, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

@Apisite: Hey! Honestly, I don't think that it'd be done anytime soon. The Odùduwà script hasn't really seen widespread usage and doesn't really seem to be picking up speed or gaining popularity. The vast majority of Yoruba speakers use the Latin script, so until there's a major shift, there's not much point unfortunately for Odùduwà to be formally included into Unicode at the moment (unlike Adlam which did pick up speed was eventually included).

In terms of the script's usefulness, though, my personal concern with it and the concern of other Yoruba speakers/linguists that I've talked to, is that it doesn't have the full phonology of the language. Like you've mentioned, it lacks a way to show tones, but in addition to that, the numbers past 9 aren't given symbols. Also, the script continues the issue of nasal vowels being represented by "vowel" + the character for "n" which should be fixed if creating a new script. Thus, that's part of why it hasn't gained speed, but I would love for there to be a more efficient way to write the language. Thanks for reaching out! AG202 (talk) 10:24, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

For nasal vowels, why not a smaller version of the letter ni placed next to the middle of a vowel's side? --Apisite (talk) 10:48, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Personally, I feel that that would continue the current issue that we're having with confusion between the syllabic nasals vs nasal vowels vs initial "n". If we're going to transition to a new script, it must alleviate those issues. AG202 (talk) 06:56, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

хаана

I don't add altaic etymologies. Mongolian хаана and Kyrgyz кана have same root, that's fact. I said see also kazakh қашан and Manchu ᠠᡳ, I did not say they are from proto altaic. They are related so see also these. If words are related, you cannot change sprachbund. Same for ᠠᡳ page. There was information because they are related. I have already given a source about this relationship. They are not proto-altaic and no one said they are.

@BurakD53: Hello! The problem that arose was with the usage of the word "cognate". Being a cognate implies that there's a common ancestor between two words that led to their current development. In the case of хаана and кана, however, per the etymologies that you yourself added, if the former descends from Proto-Mongolic and the latter descends Proto-Turkic, there's no way that they can be cognates, as those are two separate proto languages in two separate language families, unless some kind of Altaic-esque conclusion is followed. You can put comparisons in the etymologies that there may be some kind of relation, but I'd avoid putting that they're cognates unless they're both from the same root that isn't "above" two proto-languages from separate families (ex: if the Mongolian were borrowed from a Turkic language or something similar). (You would also need to put that common root that they come from anyways, otherwise it's confusing to a reader that would be stuck at both Proto-languages if they tried to follow the etymologies all the way back.) Re: Sprachbunds, those do not prove genetic relationships on their own at all, as stated by the article you linked, so more would need to be added to show that kind of relationship. Also, I wouldn't consider Etymological dictionary of the Altaic languages as complete fact as that is a critically panned dictionary that has a lot of issues and pushed the debunked Altaic hypothesis. And please remember to sign any message you leave with four tildes. Thank you! AG202 (talk) 14:03, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

@AG202: Thanks for your feedback! I will pay attention. I'm new to Wiktionary so I'm just learning everything. I thought the word cognate was just about the kinship of words. I didn't know there was a concept about the origins of languages. BurakD53 (talk) 17:30, 21 June 2021 (UTC+3)

@BurakD53: No worries at all! Yep just remember that comparisons are fine, but with cognates there's a lot more that needs to be proven. Keep up the good work! AG202 (talk) 14:33, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

No hard feelings

If your level of involvement continues at this rate, in another few months I'll nominate you for adminship. Cheers! bd2412 T 21:08, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! No hard feelings from my end too, my apologies once again. Cheers to you as well! AG202 (talk) 21:11, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Hausa resources

Thanks for the response over at the vote. I noticed that you're a Yoruba speaker and I have an interest in someday learning Hausa (probably will never happen but who knows?); do you have any recommendations on resources to learn this language? Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:53, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

@Koavf Hello, and thanks for bringing up countries with underserved resources into the mix; I thought it was a very important conversation to at least start to have. Regarding Hausa, unfortunately, I'm not that well-versed with it (if at all) and someone like @Metaknowledge would have more information than me. In terms of the resources I've found in a cursory search and that I've seen used in Nigerian language spaces, here are a few:

• The University of California at Los Angeles's Hausa resources, along with an online Hausa course
• The National African Language Resource Center at Indiana University - Bloomington, which has the textbook Mù Zântā Dà Harshèn Hausa - Let's Speak Hausa
• University of Iowa's Hausa Resources
• Foreign Service Institute Hausa Course

Hopefully you'll be able to find something of use out of that. AG202 (talk) 09:39, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Nice! As an IU alumnus, good to see us represented. Na gode/o ṣeun. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:45, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Kò tọ́pẹ́ o (You're welcome)! AG202 (talk) 09:49, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

I've been studying Hausa for a while, in a slow but steady way. I'd recommend you try out a few Hausa courses and see what you like; the old Teach Yourself Hausa (Kraft & Kirk-Greene) is good, and you might try Spoken Hausa (Cowan & Schuh) as well, along with the ones mentioned above. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 16:27, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Awuekia in Edo

Hello! I saw you edited some Edo lemmas. Could I invite you to create a lemma for "awuekia", the probable root word of awege? Best, --Appolodorus1 (talk) 18:19, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

@Appolodorus1, Many many apologies for being so so late with this, I've had the entry open for quite some time, but never got around to completing it until now. Please see: awuekia. Thanks for the request and keep up the good work! AG202 (talk) 16:56, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

That's awesome, many thanks! I'd have a next request concerning soso. Appolodorus1 (talk) 09:13, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

lol!

Seems like the two of us have archived RFD/RFV discussions to User talk:ShlomoKatzav. I've copied them to Talk:𐤀𐤂𐤅𐤕 and redirected the others but I'll leave the originals on the user talk page for comedic effect. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 18:46, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

my page

i knew when i created this page that i was going to have trouble finding citations .... google books has one very clear citation near the top if i search for the phrase, and then dozens of others, but there is no convenient way to find the text in the other books, since the pages are graphical images, and i've heard people say that these days google books is turning up all sorts of spurious matches and that we can't assume it's in the text of the book at all. this is one reason why i waited so long to create this page after hinting at it here four years ago. i hope the deletion template actually helps us find attestations, rather than making it look like i did something horrible by adding this term to our dictionary. but i know my one google books citation isnt going to be enough.

so why did i add this term in the first place? because ive heard it in person, so i know it exists, and it was clear from the situation at hand that everyone knew what it meant, even if not everyone present had heard it before. —Soap— 21:01, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Admin

You need to be an admin. I'll start a vote GreyishWorm (talk) 22:03, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, but unfortunately I'll have to decline for now. I haven't been here that long, and I don't think I'm currently ready for the admin tools. Also, things had gotten heated in the past, and I would like issues to settle down and for more trust to be built before I start striving for leadership of this project. (Though being able to edit the language modules would be really nice, so I wouldn't have to bother folks to ask every time 😅) AG202 (talk) 18:46, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I can propose you as a template editor if you think it would be beneficial to you. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 20:18, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

@Fytcha Hello, apologies for the late response, but yes that would be very beneficial, especially when it comes to the upcoming coverage of African languages. AG202 (talk) 15:58, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

See Special:Diff/69932535. Excited about your upcoming work! — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 19:49, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Looks like there is a mistake

{{ja-r|紫外線|べんごし}} in 변호사 and 벤호사 doesn't seem right. --2607:FB91:30C:5594:BD86:5E8A:B584:C941 09:36, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Oops, apologies for that. It's been fixed now, thanks! AG202 (talk) 15:08, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Help with adding tone to Yoruba entries or other Yoruba-related changes

Hi, you mentioned that you and the other Yoruba editors have considered changing the Yoruba entries to include tone marks in the page titles, but haven't reached a consensus partly due to the amount of work it would take to change the entries. I feel like this is something that is definitely fixable by bot, provided the pages themselves specify the tone, which (from looking at a couple of entries) it seems they do. So if you need help with this or other Yoruba-related issues, please let me know. Benwing2 (talk) 02:01, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

ọniyan

There's been a disagreement here between two US IPs over whether @Oniwe was correct to apply Category:Idaaṣa Yoruba to this entry. The first one created the missing category page, and the second one tagged it for speedy deletion with “Idaaca has its own language code and is not to be under Regional Yorùbá.”.

The problem I have is that we have nothing under either spelling in WT:LOL. We do have idd, which we call Ede Idaca. Wikipedia mentions only "Ede Idaasha" as a "Yoruba dialect" at Idaasha people, though one could interpret their discussion of variant spellings for "Idaasha" to connect that to "Ede Idaca" which is listed at Ede language (but no specific mention of an "sh" variant of "Idaca").

All of this seems like a good circumstantial case for assuming that the second IP is correct, but, aside from an African Languages class at UCLA three and a half decades ago, I have no background at all in these languages- so I'd rather hear from someone who knows something. Not that there's anything that says someone from the US couldn't be knowledgable on African languages- for all I know, one of those could be you- but there's also nothing to say either one actually is. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 20:52, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi! I do happen to have knowledge of these specific group of African languages. I proposed the deletion of Idaaṣa Yoruba category. Idaaṣa is spelt many different ways, mostly because of the discrepancy of the nature of the "sh" sound. Most Yoruba dialects have "sh" (ṣ) representing "ʃ," so when many Yoruba speakers have written it, it has been but Idaaṣa, like most Ede languages of Benin & Togo, the sound is more closely related to ʧ. However, now current linguistics (see Morphophonemics of the Idaasa dialect by Desire Baolue) suggest the sound is a /c/, and is allophonically also a ʃ or ʧ. Either way, this has caused larged discrepancy in spellings, across most of the Ede languages and Itsekiri. (For Ede Cabe, its traditionally spelled Sabee or Shabee, but also Chabee. Itsekiri is spelled Isekiri, Itsekiri, Ijekiri, Itsekhiri, and probably others). Thus, Idaaṣa is spelt Idaca, Idaasha, Idaaca, etc Idaaitsa. Wiktionary has chosen to use the "c" variants, as this likely from newer documentation of the languages by SIL (see Ede Cabe and Ede Ica in Wiktionary), because of the identification that the sound is /c/. Unfortunately there is a lot of work that needs to be done on updating the Wiktionary of all these aformentioned languages.

Even though many Yoruba speakers, and even speakers of Ede Idaca may consider Ede Idaca to be a dialect of Yoruba (mostly because of cultural affinity), the Ede languages have been defined, including by Wiktionary, as a unique set of languages not under the regional Yoruba dialects. Oniwe (talk) 01:33, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Adminship

Now's a good time for your promotion to WT immortality Denazz (talk) 00:52, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

You are invited to join a discussion on Wikipedia

You are invited to join the discussion at w:Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Korea-related articles#About adding a link to each hangul syllable using Template:Linktext. 172.56.232.26 20:46, 18 January 2024 (UTC)