1. Plural of Atmo 2. (Sound production) clipping of ??? atmosphere

What does this mean: clipping of? Sound production? Ætherdog (talk) 12:39, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

It seems to mean that the term is used specifically in sound production. Benwing2 (talk) 15:18, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

Request for template creationEdit

Hello. I would like to reference some Bengali etymologies, and later on, reconstructed Bengali entries, Middle and Old Bengali entries, with Chatterji (1926). This work is in 2 parts. So could you please create templates for them, which you can make as {{R:ODBL|I}} and {{R:ODBL|II}} for the respective volumes? You may set the templates to be appearing somewhat as follows:
Chatterji, Suniti Kumar (1926) The Origin and Development of the Bengali Language[1], volume I, Calcutta University Press; and
Chatterji, Suniti Kumar (1926) The Origin and Development of the Bengali Language[2], volume II, Calcutta University Press
Thanks in advance! —Lbdñk (talk) 09:52, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

OK, I'll get to this shortly. Benwing2 (talk) 09:53, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2: just reminding you in case you forgot, but take your time. —Lbdñk (talk) 14:55, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Script to add translation tablesEdit

Hi. I've been working quite a bit with French idioms and their English translations lately, and I'm often adding translation tables to English entries like this (some other examples), before adding the French translation. Do you think you could whip up a script that would allow me to do the first step (i.e. add an empty translation table) in one click? Canonicalization (talk) 10:32, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I can definitely write a script that can be run to add empty translation tables to a list of French terms. The only thing is that I'd have to run the script because it requires a bot account and various things set up on my computer. The idea would be that you'd give me a list of pages and I'd run the script on those pages. We can repeat this as many times as is needed. If you're looking for something more interactive, you might want something written in JavaScript. For that, ask User:Erutuon, who is much better than I am at JavaScript. Benwing2 (talk) 10:55, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
He has asked me before; I probably should do it finally. I'll put it on my mental list. — Eru·tuon 09:44, 17 January 2020 (UTC)


Believe it or not, this along with its ca, es and pt children, has shown up with "out of time" module errors. If it helps any, none of these shows any categories, so it must be timing out before that part. The only thing I can think of is that there may be some kind of recursion or conflict due to Valencia being both a region/state in Spain and a city in California. Please have a look. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 01:10, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz This was because I had "Valencia" as both an autonomous community of Spain and a city within that autonomous community. For now I've removed it from the city list. Benwing2 (talk) 01:19, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Category:en:Washington, D.C.Edit

Why did you recreate this? Did you see Category:en:Washington, D.C., USA? —Justin (koavf)TCM 06:08, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@Koavf Yes, I know about that and I'm planning on deleting it. I've added support to {{place}} for major cities all over the world, and I've decided not to include the country name after the city. The logic is as follows: (a) nearly every existing city category does not include the country, and Category:en:Washington, D.C., USA is the only exception I know of; (b) including the country name causes problems e.g. for the city of São Paulo, where there is already Category:São Paulo, Brazil for the state of São Paulo (similarly for Rio de Janeiro). Benwing2 (talk) 06:13, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

re: "shiretown" parameterEdit

Methinks you left out a step... Chuck Entz (talk) 00:42, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz Oops. I forgot to fix Module:place, will fix now. Benwing2 (talk) 00:49, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Wingerbot is using gt/lt signs instead of curly bracketsEdit

For example diff. —Mahāgaja · talk 13:05, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

@Mahagaja Oops. These changes were made manually by me in a text file, and I messed up here. Benwing2 (talk) 13:28, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Delete request on شمالاتEdit

Can you take a look at this entry? Your bot made it and an IP requested it be deleted. Thanks! - TheDaveRoss 15:49, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

@TheDaveRoss One of the plurals appears wrong but the other one is correct if rare, per Lane. I fixed the entry accordingly. Benwing2 (talk) 03:46, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Bot requestEdit

I'm replacing a bunch of templates with new tone-requiring versions of them. For each, the former parameter |h= (or |head=) is now going to be the first positional parameter in the new template, with the other positional parameters being incremented by 1 when present. I need some help with the ones I can't easily do by hand, and Erutuon told me you have a script to do this. The replacements are:

Thank you! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 17:43, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge Should be done. Benwing2 (talk) 06:02, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Thank you! I've now made the /new templates into redirects — could you do a run to chop off /new from the transclusions? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 07:21, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge Done. Benwing2 (talk) 07:41, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
And could you please also do the same (chop off the /new) for {{rw-noun/new}}? —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 07:51, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge Done. Benwing2 (talk) 11:36, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
I have another one, if you don't mind. I want to replace {{head|ny|noun plural form}} with {{ny-plural noun}}: the former parameter |h= (or |head=) is now going to be the first positional parameter in the new template (if neither of these parameters are present, the first parameter should just be the pagename), and the former |g= is going to be the second positional parameter (but it needs the first character stripped, so |g=c12 becomes |12). Sorry for the extra trouble with this one. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 18:19, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge Done. Benwing2 (talk) 03:43, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
Another one, just a simple replacement: {{head|bnt-pro|verb}} to {{bnt-verb}}, please. Thank you! —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 19:04, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge Done. Benwing2 (talk) 01:29, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
And another: we can replace {{character info/new}} with {{character info}}, which I assume was the plan all along. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:59, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge OK, it is running. As there are over 40,000 pages using the template, it will take a little while. I'm running 5 processes, each one handling 8,000 pages running at 1 per second, so it should be done in a little over 2 hours. Benwing2 (talk) 04:22, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
I have another request — please let me know if you want me to stop. This time, I'd like to replace {{desc}} with {{bnt-desc}} in all Proto-Bantu entries. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 02:45, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
@Metaknowledge Done. Don't worry, these requests are mostly easy to fulfill. Benwing2 (talk) 03:46, 1 April 2020 (UTC)


Hi Ben. I need to be blocked, please. I've been spending too much time here again. --AcpoKrane (talk) 12:16, 1 March 2020 (UTC)


diff Chuck Entz (talk) 04:08, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz Sorry about that, I should have checked CAT:E after pushing those changes. I try to do that but occasionally forget. BTW, any time you see a sporadic error like this, it means I used the bot to push changes that I manually made to a text file, and the error is because I mistyped something. When I write a script to make the changes, typically you won't see any such errors, or if you do, you will see a lot :) Benwing2 (talk) 04:36, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Bulgarian headwords and manual transliterations - bot requestEdit

(moved to Module talk:bg-nominal)

Mass removal of Russian manual transliterationsEdit


Special:Contributions/ has mass-removed Russian manual transliterations on "чн"/"шн". Is there an easy/quick way to undo this? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 22:40, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Ooof. Some bad abjad removals too. --{{victar|talk}} 23:00, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
It looks like there are some good changes mixed in with the bad ones. Can you identify the bad ones? If you can do that, I have a script I can use to undo those changes (even if there are subsequent changes from other users, although it looks like mostly there aren't). Ideally, save the HTML from the User contributions page and edit it; that will preserve the diff ID's. But that might be painful. If so, just select the lines from the User contributions page that contain the bad changes and paste into a text file, and I'll parse out the page names and undo the changes to those pages from this user. Note that there are some bad changes to pages that don't have чн in the page name, e.g. the change to тряпица. Benwing2 (talk) 01:36, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. I will see what method is best, otherwise, I'll just clean up myself. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:00, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
A script to revert any removals where the transcription differs from the automatic one would be nice. --{{victar|talk}} 02:11, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Victar: No. The automated for стани́чник (staníčnik) is "staníčnik", the manual and the correct one is "staníčnik, staníšnik". --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:45, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Atitarev: I think you misunderstand me. --{{victar|talk}} 03:41, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Victar: Maybe, please clarify. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:54, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Atitarev I think we got all of them reverted. Benwing2 (talk) 04:20, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Victar I'm not capable of evaluating the changes to Avestan or Old Persian; you'll have to look at them and roll them back as necessary. Benwing2 (talk) 04:21, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2: You can't have the script look at the previous revision to see if it's in C:Terms with manual transliterations different from the automated ones? --{{victar|talk}} 04:27, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Victar I could write a script to do that, but (a) it would take longer than just manually reviewing the commits, (b) some of the changes (at least for Russian) were correct. Benwing2 (talk) 04:31, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
That's too bad. I'm mostly just going to revert all his edits on Iranian entries. --{{victar|talk}} 04:39, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Victar I only see about 20 of them, can't you just review them manually? Benwing2 (talk) 04:48, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
I don't mean just Proto-Iranian entries, I mean entries within the Iranian family. --{{victar|talk}} 05:05, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Victar Yes. There are the most recent 19 contribs, and about 30 more on March 1st, and that's it. Do you have rollback privileges? If not, I can give it to you, it will make your life easier. Benwing2 (talk) 05:11, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
I'm manually going through them now, but from what I see, it's more than that -- mostly Kurdish links. --{{victar|talk}} 05:14, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2: Yes, thank you. The rest of edits were OK. I wonder if manual (required) translits should have a hidden comment or something. I feel that I have to do it on a regular basis. I still feel that manual transliterations (even with commas) are important, like this one Кузьми́нична f (Kuzʹmínična, Kuzʹmínišna). @ --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:25, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
These are also from the same person: Special:Contributions/, Special:Contributions/ --{{victar|talk}} 05:40, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Victar Damn, this guy is persistent. There are an awful lot of Iranian-related changes; if they need to be mass-reverted and can be done by a script, let me know how, and I'll see if I can write the script. Benwing2 (talk) 05:57, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Yeah... annoying. I would actually even just settle for reverting any edits with pal and xpr. Those are the worst edits. They don't seem to realize that some characters can represent multiple transcriptions, which is why manual ones were set. --{{victar|talk}} 06:19, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Victar OK, how would the script go about figuring this out? Which templates are involved? Benwing2 (talk) 06:22, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
{{l}} and {{m}}, so reverting any edits (lines?) containing {{l|pal|, {{m|pal|, {{l|xpr|, {{m|xpr|. --{{victar|talk}} 06:27, 6 March 2020 (UTC)


Benwing, @Erutuon mentioned you might have a bot script for moving links. If you have a moment, could you move all links to Template:R:Mackenzie over to Template:R:pal:Mackenzie:1971? I'd like to use T:R:Mackenzie for another reference template. Thanks for any help. --{{victar|talk}} 06:01, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

@Victar Done. Benwing2 (talk) 16:42, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks! --{{victar|talk}} 19:47, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Can we simply combine the ‘Europe’ and ‘Asia’ parents?Edit

I did this a while ago, but somebody told me that it wasn’t a good idea. Should I undo it? — (((Romanophile))) (contributions) 02:29, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

@Romanophile Yeah I don't think this is a good idea. Doing this makes things more obscure as you won't find e.g. Russia under either Europe or Asia when you'd expect it under both. BTW I don't think any country except Turkey and Russia should be listed as being in both Europe and Asia; the rest are only in Asia. Benwing2 (talk) 03:54, 16 March 2020 (UTC)
All right, sorry about that. Undone. —(((Romanophile))) (contributions) 04:12, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Vowel length in Latin verno, vernus, vernalisEdit

I was surprised to see these words marked with a long vowel, and looking through the edit history for verno, I noticed that you had added a macron to it in September 2019. I see that Lewis 1890 marks these words with a macron, and Bennett 1907's entry for vernus does also, simply stating "from vēr" (page 66).

However, vowels before a consonant cluster starting with a resonant are presumed to have been shortened in Latin at some point by a sound change, often called "Osthoff's Law" (a name that also applies to a similar sound change in Greek). Some exceptions are thought to be present in Classical Latin, but I don't know of any firm basis for supposing that the vern- words were such an exception. According to de Vaan 2008, the root of ver itself originally had a short vowel, and the long vowel found in Classical Latin vēr is secondary, resulting from compensatory lengthening when s was lost before n in the genitive: vesnos > ve:nos (with later replacement of ve:nos > ve:ros). Our entry in Wiktionary agrees with this account. De Vaan says that the vern- in vernus might come from either vesin- (in which case the e would have been short all along) or from ve:ri-n-. In the second case, Osthoff's shortening still seems like a possibility. "Osthoff’s Law in Latin", by Ollie Sayeed , assumes that vernus has a short vowel (page 157, in Indo-European Linguistics 5 (2017) 147–17).

So the etymological situation seems inconclusive, and as far as I know, there is no non-etymological evidence of a long e in the vern- words (e.g. in the form of either Latin-era inscriptions with apices, or distinctive Romance reflexes). Do you know more about this?--Urszag (talk) 05:04, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

@Urszag I added the long vowel based on Alatius's web page [3], which quotes Bennett but contains corrections from several later authors. vērnus isn't corrected so I took it as correct. I have heard the arguments about Osthoff's Law but AFAIK it applied long before the Classical Latin period; at least that's how I learned this law worked. There are several exceptions like fōrma (as shown by Spanish horma not *huerma, French fourme), vēndō, quīnque, probably vāllum, ūllus, sūrsum, etc. So I am skeptical there was an Osthoff's Law that applied late enough to make a big difference in Classical Latin. De Vaan is of the Leiden school, which has its own peculiar ideas about Indo-European linguistics, so I wouldn't take everything he says at face value. I don't know about Ollie Sayeed but I see he's a PhD student. Benwing2 (talk) 05:33, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Yes, there certainly were words in Classical Latin that for various reasons had long vowels before resonant-initial clusters, as I mentioned. The date of the shortening law would only matter if vernus was a late formation from vēr: if it was formed early on, then one possible scenario is the vowel being shortened by Osthoff's Law and remaining short after Osthoff's Law ceased being actively applied. Is there any evidence that it was a late formation?--Urszag (talk) 06:23, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
@Urszag I don't have any evidence one way or other. But the assumption that Osthoff's Law continued to be applied well into the Classical period seems dubious to me given the large number of exceptions. It seems more logical to me that it applied very early on and then ceased to be active even before the Old Latin stage. Is there specific evidence that Osthoff's Law continued to apply into and past the Old Latin period? The only cases I know of where shortening before resonant + consonant seems to have occurred are before 'nt' and 'nd'.
Ultimately it seems that the best we can do is add a note indicating that there is some disagreement in the sources as to the length of 'vērnus/vĕrnus', maybe by writing it as 'vē̆rnus' with a note indicating which sources say it's long and which ones say it's short. Benwing2 (talk) 06:53, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
For many specific consonant clusters of the form RC, there aren't many examples of OL in Latin. Sayeed mentions shortening before -rn- in perna (>Spanish pierna), and before -mb- (from -ms- or -ns-) in membrum and in month names ending in -ember. Perna, membrum and -ember are supposed to be from PIE roots with long e (pages 156-157).--Urszag (talk) 07:25, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
@Urszag The problem is that perna and membrum look to be very old constructions, meaning Osthoff's Law might have applied at the Proto-Italic stage or even earlier (in fact, the Wiktionary entry for membrum effectively dates Osthoff's Law to Proto-Italic or earlier by assuming shortening already at the Proto-Italic stage), and it's far from obvious how the -ember nouns evolved. In fact, Wiktionary's etymology for september assumes that the -em comes from the end of septem, not from the originally long ē of mēns. All of this is not to say that Osthoff's Law couldn't have applied later as well, but I feel we need better evidence. Benwing2 (talk) 04:10, 20 March 2020 (UTC)


The categories no longer work at all. DTLHS (talk) 16:01, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Sri Jayawardenepura KotteEdit

I noticed a rather problematic edit made by User:WingerBot so I fixed it, but you may want to look into it as a potentially larger problem. İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 00:21, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@Ilawa-Katawa Thanks. This happened because I accidentally deleted the line that demarcated the division between two adjacent pages when manually editing the text. This is not indicative of a larger issue, just human error :) Benwing2 (talk) 00:54, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
@Ilawa-Kataka Oops. Benwing2 (talk) 00:54, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2 Thank you for your response, I am relieved. İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 01:12, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Bulgarian and Ukrainian pronunciation modules - minor fixes, hopefullyEdit


When you have a chance (I know you're busy), could you please fix some most striking problems or issues:

  1. Handling of "я" and "ю" by Module:bg-pronunciation/testcases when they are not following consonants, should be [j], not [ʲ] like in Russian.
  2. There are no cases yet but Module:uk-pronunciation shouldn't make "и" as [e] in unstressed positions but always [ɪ]. I don't have a good reference on Ukrainian pronunciation. Ivan Štambuk must have based on some old book, which not so valid.

Pls let me know if you want anything on the Bulgarian noun inflection module. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:56, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev I'll get to this in the next day or so. Benwing2 (talk) 03:57, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for that, also please make Ukrainian "е" to always be [ɛ], also unstressed. This will make it a bit more phonemic but also more generic for most speakers.
There are few weird things as for the current pronunciation but it's hard to make it perfect, e.g. вовк (vovk) is [vɔu̯k] by most speakers, not [wɔu̯k]. No rush. Let's do Bulgarian first. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:18, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Hiya, I've changed my mind about the Ukrainian modules changes. It's better to follow some model, rather than mixing. Fixing Bulgarian module's errors are essential. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 21:43, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

WingerBot creating errorsEdit

Hi, edits like diff are creating module errors in Bulgarian entries. —Mahāgaja · talk 06:24, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

@Mahagaja: Thanks. Fixed. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Белоруссия in diffEdit


Nah, it's not obsolete but Белару́сь (Bjelarúsʹ) is more respectful to Belarusians, even if Byelorussia is obsolete. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад)

Thesaurus:important personEdit

I decide to be bold and renamed Thesaurus:big cheese to Thesaurus:important person. Could you do a bot run and replace occurrences of the former to the latter? Thanks. — SGconlaw (talk) 07:09, 12 April 2020 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw Done. Benwing2 (talk) 03:48, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks! — SGconlaw (talk) 05:01, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

New Bulgarian entries made by WingerBotEdit

I noticed a mass-creation of Bulgarian entries by your bot. They look good - with the right senses, stresses and inflections! How?! It takes a long time to create entries manually. Did you extract all of them from a dictionary? Did it take you long?

I want to ask if it's possible to repeat this feat in the future (theoretically) with Ukrainian and Belarusian entries - The Ukrainian and Belarusian inflections exist on public sites, a smart bot would be able to load them. Russian might use some missing feminine forms, for example. Ivan Štambuk was able to mass generate Ukrainian entries with inflections, which is not easy to do if you have to do it manually. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 09:11, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev I manually create a text file specifying the declensions, stresses, meanings, synonyms, antonyms, derived and related terms, and then use a script to generate the entries, and another script to push the entries using my bot. It takes a long time: the recent batch of 259 entries took 2 days to create. The time goes into looking up the entries, figuring out the inflection and meaning, and finding related terms. Running the actual scripts is fast. If I didn't have to worry about definitions or derived/related terms, it would go faster, for sure. The first few entries in the manually-created text file look like this:
n роб raw:From_West_Slavic,_from_{{inh|bg|sla-pro|*orbъ||slave}},_from_{{inh|bg|ine-pro|*h₃órbʰos||orphan}}._{{doublet|bg|раб}}. <+и+ове[a]>|f=роби́ня|adj=ро́бски (also)(f)[[slave]];[[prisoner]];(f)[[servant]];ux:[[Ваш]]_[[поко́рен]]_'''роб'''|your_obedient_'''servant''' der:ро́бство
n ро́бство роб+-ство </n:sg> [[slavery]],[[servitude]];syn:робу́ване;[[yoke]];syn:и́го rel:роб:роби́ня
n ро́ба - <> [[robe]],[[dressing_gown]]
n хълм inh:sla-pro:*xъlmъ <+ове+и[p]> [[hill]] der:хълми́ст
n щрих de:Strich <+и>|adj=щри́хов (l)[[line]],[[stroke]] der:щрихи́рам,щрихо́вам

Benwing2 (talk) 09:25, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the hard work! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 09:32, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Hiya. How is going? Do you want me any help with Bulgarian - something I could do? The verbs are going to be a bit more complex but I hope there will be much more commonalities by types, for example, a missing verb ми́сля (míslja, to think) has many verbs with similar or identical conjugations of type 173ti in We will need to check if a common type also includes stress patterns. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:29, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
@Atitarev Hey. I've written the code for multiword nouns and adjectives and I'm testing it now. Afterwards comes the verbs. It would help if you could sort out the different possible stress patterns of verbs, as I have little idea of the possible variations. Maybe make a table similar to User:Benwing2/test-bg-ndecl that lists various verbs and certain forms. I think Bulgarian verbs don't have stress movement within a single tense, unlike Russian, so it may be enough to list the following forms:
  1. the first-person singular present (future for perfective verbs0
  2. the first-person singular aorist
  3. the first-person singular imperfect
  4. singular imperative
  5. singular imperative
  6. masculine indefinite singular present active participle
  7. masculine indefinite singular past active aorist participle
  8. indefinite plural past active aorist participle
  9. masculine singular past active imperfect participle
  10. plural past active imperfect participle
  11. masculine indefinite singular past passive participle
  12. indefinite plural past passive participle
  13. adverbial participle
  14. singular indefinite verbal noun
Apologies for requesting so many forms per verb. I think it may be possible to do without the plural variants of the participles, which would eliminate three forms (14 -> 11). But it looks from Bulgarian conjugation that Bulgarian verbs are just very complicated. Benwing2 (talk) 02:15, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
OK, thank you. I have just started User talk:Atitarev/test-bg-vconj User:Atitarev/test-bg-vconj. Just trying to make sense at the moment. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:49, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
I have corrected the link. Please check if the number of columns is sufficient. --06:59, 22 April 2020 (UTC)


This Latin noun is documented only in the dative and accusative. Is there a way to reflect this fact in the declension table? I could find no instructions in the template documentation for missing forms. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:35, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect bot editsEdit

I notice that on 21 August, you made a lot of incorrect bot edits to forms of the verb compono/conpono, removing the length in -po- where it should have been kept. Would you mind correcting these errors? 2A02:2121:30A:5F8E:2CEB:77A0:3248:7871 08:18, 30 April 2020 (UTC)


Could you explain why you deleted this? I can find it attested in Caesar, but I could be missing something. StudiesWorld (talk) 14:24, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Belarusian and/or UkrainianEdit


You have done an amazing piece of work for Bulgarian. Thank you! There's always room for improvement but it seems the infrastructure is now in a very good shape.

Please let me know if you're interested in improving Belarusian and/or Ukrainian contents as well. I am more familiar with these languages but I can't give much of a technical advise and I don't think we'll get much help from others. Resources are somewhat better for Ukrainian. Some work on conjugation templates is currently going on Russian and Ukrainian Wiktionaries. The inflections are more complex and there is more variety than Russian but even small improvements would be appreciated. I am OK to continue to add inflections manually but some templates don't even allow that, for example, Ukrainian templates can't handle reflexive verbs. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:00, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev Sure, I can do some work on Ukrainian, esp. since the resources are better than for Belarusian. I will start by looking into the issue with reflexive verbs. If you could point me to any resources on Ukrainian declensions or conjugations, it would be helpful. Benwing2 (talk) 03:03, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. You can start by analysing our currently used templates. For example, a transitive verb говори́ти (hovorýty) has a full paradigm. If you add any term inСловозміна, it will give you inflections, sometimes more than one for different senses. It's very good for nouns and adjectives. The verb conjugation is not 100% complete there. We will need to fill the rest - or leave unpopulated to be filled. E.g.говорити doesn't provide participles, and only one type of the future tense, e.g. говори́тиму - I will talk (infinitive + му ending for 1st pers. sg). The missing type is formed the same way as Russian, e.g. бу́ду говори́ти - I will talk. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:29, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
BTW, many Ukrainian terms have audio files, so you can get a feel how Ukrainian sounds. You may wonder if unstressed "и" is represented correctly by the pronunciation module. E.g. говори́ти is [ɦɔu̯ɔˈrɪte] but you will hear [ɦɔu̯ɔˈrɪtɪ]. It is based on a more classical accent, which is fading away. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:39, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
I have found another online resource for Ukrainian conjugations, the dictionary I have been using for a while -давати - need to scroll down. It doesn't give stresses here but it gives MORE forms missing atСловозміна. (The dictionary needs some getting used to. It annoys you with requests to log on but t won't do it again after the first query - you can switch languages and look up other words. Clicking refresh is always better and adding the term to the URL). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 08:02, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
@Atitarev It looks like Ukrainian grammar is pretty similar to Russian grammar, so as a first approximation maybe we can use Zaliznyak's system of notating nouns and verbs. Benwing2 (talk) 01:50, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
Yes, there are many similarities.
For verbs, there are more forms - alternative future, роби́тиму/бу́ду роби́ти ("I will do"). Ukrainian is unique in this among Slavic languages, forming is easy but care should be taken for reflexive verbs - -сь/-ся are also used, like in Russian but the rules are different.
Many verbs in -ти have alternative infinitives in -ть, the tables could use those: розмовля́ти/розмовля́ть but not verbs like нести́.
Pluperfect tense is sometimes described, e.g. "чита́в був" (I had read), no need to include in tables, IMO.
Present active participle is normally missing, it may be confused with a noun, e.g. даючий. So, I am not sure if it should be included. In any case, it's a bit hard to find for each verb and find the right stress. Perhaps as a parameter, rather than an automatic feature.
"past_pasv_part_impers", is currently not displayed, e.g. "ро́блено" in tables but it should. It's very typical and is also used with intransitive verbs.
All nouns have vocative forms, even if they are not used in the real life, that's what grammar books do.
Some challenges will be with alterations, such о/і, г/з, к/ц, х/с, л/в, у/в, which are not present in Russian.
You can request inflections for different terms and I will try to make entries or just inflection tables. If you improve the current conjugation tables, it will make it easier for me, so that I could use reflexive as well. I will be able to add multiple different verb conjugations on a page, so that you could build a module, if this is what you're planning. Just let me know. If you want to focus on nouns first, that's fine. They are easier. You'll get exposed to many sound changes, which are common for Ukrainian. Some things are still very unfamiliar to me and even current adjective templates include a number of archaic/very rare forms. It's definitely more complex than Russian.
You can also take a look at Ukrainian Wiktionary inflection templates, some are good but far from comprehensive in coverage. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад)
Great job, Ben! Are you able to run a bot and add {{rfinfl}} on all Uk, Be, Bg and Ru terms requiring inflections but missing them (and no {{rfinfl}})? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:28, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Again, great job, but I noticed that your bot added the conjugation table for касувати to мити (myty). İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 13:00, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
@Ilawa-Kataka: Thanks for spotting. That has been fixed. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:41, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
@Atitarev I added {{rfinfl}} to all Uk, Be, and Bg nouns, verbs and adjectives needing inflections. Haven't yet done proper nouns or Russian. Benwing2 (talk) 02:06, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2: Thank you for this and the fixes and the enhancements to Module:uk-headword. I saw you added comparatives, diminutives, etc. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:31, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
@Atitarev: Speaking of Belarusian declensions, Jarash (talkcontribs) added a few some time ago, but generally without the stresses. See паласа (palasa) or сляза (sljaza) for example. PUC – 10:05, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
@PUC: Thanks, it would be good to label them for attention but maintenance categories for Belarusian are now quite large. I personally have no issue adding a stress mark at all. I am using SC Unipad, which decomposes diacritics and I just copy/paste the stress mark in the right place. At, you can see the underlined stress marks but you can't copy it. Belarusian headwords need a lot of rework too. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 10:15, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

I am your studentEdit

Hello from el.wiktionary. I know nothing about Lua, computers, but I am fascinated by your work. And i learn a lot from your comments. I have been trying to unify templates for 'places'. Nothing complicated like your Module:place. I tried a /data page at el:Module:sarritest but I cannot make even one little link work, I cannot make them speak to each other. Is there a magic word for it. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 17:45, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek Hello! I can help you if you can specify exactly what you need to happen. Benwing2 (talk) 00:08, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
O! thank you. I do not wish to bother you. Here is a brief copy: el:Module:topos. I fell SO stupid... ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 00:20, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
O! disaster: The data page el:Module:topos/where will not accept greek terms with spaces or with dialytics. e.g. el:Αρούμπα, el:Template:test I have tried various things. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 11:49, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
@Sarri.greek I'll take a look later today. Benwing2 (talk) 16:27, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
@Sarri.greek Can you explain exactly how it's not accepting terms with spaces or diacritics? I'm not quite sure how the module is being used and what error you're seeing. Benwing2 (talk) 16:44, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
OK, I see. Benwing2 (talk) 16:46, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
@Sarri.greek The issue appears to be line 21, where you have this:
local where = require("Module:sarritest/where")
if you change it as follows:
local where = require("Module:topos/where")
then el:Αρούμπα works fine. Benwing2 (talk) 21:39, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Also everything on el:Template:test. Benwing2 (talk) 21:41, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
It was a silly bug?? @Benwing2 I am so sorry to have bothered you. I thought it was some very difficult font issue. I have asked Lua support for small wikis at but noone answers. I thank you very much. I would never solve it. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 21:48, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Virile and nonvirileEdit

Can you add the virile and nonvirile genders to Module:gender and number? The workarounds function, but they are not entirely accurate (e.g. utensylia, drzwi). İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 01:49, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

@Ilawa-Kataka What do "virile" and "nonvirile" genders mean? We already have personal and non-personal, are they the same? Benwing2 (talk) 01:53, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2 Definition of nonvirile from Appendix:Glossary: "In Slavic languages, a plural gender used for all groups that do not contain men, as well as plurals of masculine animate, masculine inanimate, feminine and neuter nouns. Contrast virile." Nonvirile and virile are typically abbreviated as "nv" and "vr" on templates and "nonvir" and "vir" in glossing (according to the Oxford Handbook) respectively by the way. İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 01:59, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
@Ilawa-Kataka I see. We currently use npers for non-personal in glosses, is it ok to use nvir for non-virile or would you prefer nonvir? Benwing2 (talk) 02:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2 Sure, that works. Thank you. İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 02:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
@Ilawa-Katawa Done. If you want we can also add categories for virile and nonvirile nouns. Benwing2 (talk) 02:22, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2 That would be great as well. My username is Ilawa-Kataka by the way. Thank you. İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 02:28, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
@Ilawa-Kataka Done. My apologies for getting your name wrong. Benwing2 (talk) 02:36, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2 Thanks again and don't worry about it. My real name is a rather common English name, but I have been called everything from Mitchell to Julia. İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 02:47, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2 There are three problems with the current execution. Firstly, the category descriptions are misleading in that they sound like they are singular whereas virility is strictly plural. I would write for the virile and nonvirile categories respectively: "Polish nouns that refer to a group with at least one male human." and "Polish nouns that refer to a group without male humans." Also, I think both categories should be (also?) subcategories of Category:Polish pluralia tantum since these categories by their nature refer to plural-only nouns. Lastly, Module:pl-headword can neither handle virility categorisation nor display the virile and nonvirile genders. While it looks to be a straightforward edit adding a couple of lines between lines 190 and 191, I am not remotely confident in my moduling skills. Thank you in advance. İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 16:58, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2 Never mind, I did everything myself. İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 17:50, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
@Ilawa-Kataka Apologies for not getting to it faster. I'm not sure it's correct to put virile nouns under pluralia tantum, though; this is a particularity of Polish. I think it should be added by the Polish module. Benwing2 (talk) 01:01, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
@Benwing2 Go ahead and change it, I am uncertain of any application of virility outside of Polish. Also, there is no need to be sorry, I was glad to get a bit of moduling experience. İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 01:12, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Ojibwe verb categorizationEdit

Hi there,

I saw your recent creation of the Ojibwe verb "gaanda'an". I've been trying to sort out the Ojibwe verb classes, and was aiming for a 4-way classification: VII-VAI-VTI-VTA. I'm no expert in wiktionary editing, but this 4-way classification matches the consensus in Ojibwe grammar. That said, your "gaanda'an" entry (and i assume others) doesn't follow that, separating the transitivity from the animacy, which i don't think works because those two elements can't be disassociated from one another. I don't want to assume my classification (following the Ojibwe People's Dictionary and others) is most appropriate for wiktionary. So, before continuing, i thought i would check with you.

SteveGat (talk) 15:21, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

@SteveGat Hi. I guess you are referring to the categories that classify a verb separately by animacy and transitivity? I'm confused as to why this doesn't work. What is it about these two properties in Ojibwe that makes them so intimately bound? In many languages, nouns, verbs, etc. have multiple properties, and just because a verb is e.g. identified in the dictionary as "transitive inanimate" doesn't mean it needs to be categorized with both at once and not with the two separately. That said, I'm not opposed to creating a category like "Ojibwe transitive inanimate verbs" but in that case I think we should also categorize at least under "Ojibwe transitive verbs" for consistency with other languages. This can be accomplished by creating a special {{oj-verb}} template that takes a parameter to specify the transitivity and animacy; I can create that template for you if you want. Benwing2 (talk) 01:37, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
You can see my overall response in the Beer Parlour. Specifically on animacy versus transitivity: intransitive verbs have different paradigms depending on the animacy of the subject, while transitive verbs (which by definition have animate subjects) have different paradigms based on the animacy of the object. In other words, animacy isn't a feature of the verb itself, so classifying a transitive verb as "animate" (VTA - animate object) has a completely different meaning than classifying an intransitive verb as "animate" (VAI - animate subject). I hope this clarifies the issue, and i appreciate your helping my think this through. SteveGat (talk) 17:11, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Small bot requestEdit

Can you make changes like diff? Ultimateria (talk) 17:31, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

@Ultimateria Done. 88 replacements. Benwing2 (talk) 01:06, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Thank you! Ultimateria (talk) 02:39, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
@Ultimateria: Here you go:

;-) Chuck Entz (talk) 05:37, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
@Chuck Entz: Oops, I just saw this. I don't think they survived my vacation 😨 Ultimateria (talk) 04:21, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

South American countries (bot edits)Edit

WingerBot's templatisation of South American country entries has marked them with r/South America instead of cont/South America causing improper categorisation. İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 14:32, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

@Ilawa-Kataka Thanks for letting me know; fixed. Benwing2 (talk) 02:30, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Replacing uses of {{timeline}} on English citations pages with {{en-timeline}}Edit

Hi, would it be possible to replace uses of {{timeline}} on English "Citations:" pages with {{en-timeline}}? @Apunite wishes to convert {{timeline}} from a redirect to a general-purpose template, but this is currently distorting its use as a redirect. — SGconlaw (talk) 15:02, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

@Apunite, SGconlaw Sure, I'll do that this evening. Benwing2 (talk) 15:30, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. Much obliged. — SGconlaw (talk) 15:52, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
@Apunite, SGconlaw Done. It converted about 12,000 pages and left about 250 alone as they were in other languages. Benwing2 (talk) 04:04, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
Thank you! — SGconlaw (talk) 05:10, 24 June 2020 (UTC)


How well do you actually speak Ukrainian? --Nueva normalidad (talk) 00:39, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

@Benwing2 I don't, really. Benwing2 (talk) 00:41, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
@Nueva normalidad Oops. Benwing2 (talk) 00:42, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
@Nueva normalidad: May I ask, why you are asking? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:24, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
Because you've been spending most of 2020 writing ridiculously complex Ukrainian Modules. --Nueva normalidad (talk) 13:51, 26 June 2020 (UTC)
@Nueva normalidad: Hey. I don't know if you realised that it wasn't Benwing2 asking you the question. "You" must be referred to him.
The modules are complex but it's the grammar, variations and inconsistencies that are ridiculously complex in Ukrainian, especially nouns. I can attest that Benwing2 is bloody efficient at this and the modules are very powerful if used correctly. It's not only Ukrainian this year - Bulgarian modules for all inflections are also done this year. I think with the experience (Russian, Arabic, Latin modules) and the approach he has taken, many things are possible, you don't really have to speak the language well. That's why it's even more amazing. In any case, I can't complain about the development speed or accuracy, LOL. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)


May I copy this module to Russian wiktionary? ПростаРечь (talk) 17:42, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

@ПростаРечь Sure, go ahead. Benwing2 (talk) 02:16, 10 July 2020 (UTC)


This was a mistake on WingerBot's part right? İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 22:16, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

@Ilawa-Kataka Not a mistake. The deleted verb doesn't belong on that page; it's already on its own page. Benwing2 (talk) 22:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, I see that now. Sorry for bothering you. İʟᴀᴡᴀ–Kᴀᴛᴀᴋᴀ (talk) (edits) 22:42, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
@Ilawa-Kataka No worries, you're not bothering me by asking about my edits. Benwing2 (talk) 22:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC)