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Welcome!Edit

Welcome!

Hello, welcome to Wiktionary, and thank you for your contributions so far.

If you are unfamiliar with wiki editing, take a look at Help:How to edit a page. It is a concise list of technical guidelines to the wiki format we use here: how to, for example, make text boldfaced or create hyperlinks. Feel free to practice in the sandbox. If you would like a slower introduction we have a short tutorial.

These links may help you familiarize yourself with Wiktionary:

  • Entry layout (EL) is a detailed policy documenting how Wiktionary pages should be formatted. All entries should conform to this standard. The easiest way to start off is to copy the contents of an existing page for a similar word, and then adapt it to fit the entry you are creating.
  • Our Criteria for inclusion (CFI) define exactly which words can be added to Wiktionary, though it may be a bit technical and longwinded. The most important part is that Wiktionary only accepts words that have been in somewhat widespread use over the course of at least a year, and citations that demonstrate usage can be asked for when there is doubt.
  • If you already have some experience with editing our sister project Wikipedia, then you may find our guide for Wikipedia users useful.
  • The FAQ aims to answer most of your remaining questions, and there are several help pages that you can browse for more information.
  • A glossary of our technical jargon, and some hints for dealing with the more common communication issues.
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You are encouraged to add a BabelBox to your userpage. This shows which languages you know, so other editors know which languages you'll be working on, and what they can ask you for help with.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! If you have any questions, bring them to the Wiktionary:Information desk, or ask me on my talk page. If you do so, please sign your posts with four tildes: ~~~~ which automatically produces your username and the current date and time.

Again, welcome! — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 06:23, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

FormattingEdit

Please be careful with your formatting. For making new Chinese character pages, you can copy the translingual info from Thai Wiktionary, and change Thai words into English (ข้ามภาษา ⇒ Translingual; อักษรจีน ⇒ Han character; อ้างอิง ⇒ References). For Chinese definitions, you can take a look at Guoxuedashi; it's best not to use the definitions right off the site, but you can use the definitions from the scanned dictionaries. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 23:01, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Chinese entriesEdit

Hi, please check out {{zh-n}} for the entry layout for Chinese entries. It also (usually) generates Pinyin automatically. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 12:38, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks --Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:40, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

presentationEdit

You might be interested in Talk:Cookie. —Suzukaze-c 05:18, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

FontEdit

I'm using the Hanazono font. You can get it from here: http://fonts.jp/hanazono/

reEdit

[1] is probably what you like.--Zcreator alt (talk) 21:15, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! --Geographyinitiative (talk) 21:36, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

referencesEdit

If you're going to be adding a lot of these, I would recommend making a template, similar to those in Category:Chinese reference templates ;) —Suzukaze-c 00:42, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Please just use {{zh-ref}} and add them to Wiktionary:About Chinese/references. An excessively long list of references is distracting in a dictionary entry. Wyang (talk) 00:53, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
I suppose so, but it's at the end of the entry anyway. It's comparatively easier to ignore, unlike lists of synonyms or massive etymologies. There's also no other way to add a reference for a specific pronunciation. —Suzukaze-c 01:01, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
It can be added by a note: |..._note=Per {{zh-ref|...}}. Wyang (talk) 01:04, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
I will check this out fully before I add any more references. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:16, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

鄉巴佬Edit

Hi there. Could you fix the pinyin on this page? We do not indicate erhuayin as the default reading for entries without 兒. It should look something like 好玩. ---> Tooironic (talk) 00:07, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

I see your point. I have made the changes so that the formatting parallels the way it is written on 好玩. Sorry for causing trouble! --Geographyinitiative (talk) 00:29, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
No worries. Cheers. ---> Tooironic (talk) 12:49, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
@Tooironic xiāngbalǎor Acceptable? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 14:04, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
Looks good to me. ---> Tooironic (talk) 02:12, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

嶽飛Edit

You can use {{delete}} instead of {{rfd}} when you create something in error. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 21:05, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

RedirectsEdit

It's not advisable to create redirects here in Wiktionary. I made your entries into redirects because the pages were already made. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 05:12, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: Based on the advice you have given me, I will not actively create redirects in Wiktionary. Thanks for your assistance. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 05:22, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

漢字簡化方案Edit

Perhaps you might like to link to the Wikisource transcription: 漢字簡化方案. —Suzukaze-c 07:47, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c, Justinrleung: I have attempted to implement the proposed idea on the page , & I like it a lot~ is it okay? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 07:53, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
Sure ^^ —Suzukaze-c 08:05, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Edit

The riddle doesn't really show any meaning of 淶, so I don't think it should be directly in the entry. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 07:48, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung I 100% understand your perspective; you are right. But at the time I edited it, I thought that maybe the example might be useful despite the fact that it doesn't use the meaning of the word in the example. I believe that this riddle/mind-bender is somewhat well-known and reflects authentic usage of the character in Mandarin Chinese. If you aren't swayed by this argument, then I will take it down. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 08:03, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
Quotations are used to illustrate the definitions. If you can't put a definition that corresponds to the quotation, it's not a good idea to have it in the entry itself. See WT:Quotations. I think it can at best be put in the Citations page for reference. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 08:16, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
@Justinrleung Understood; done. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 08:23, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

zhēnzhūEdit

I remember reading somewhere that non-lemma forms should not have a pronunciation section, that's why I removed it. Is that not policy? ---> Tooironic (talk) 09:29, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c, Tooironic I don't know if it is policy or not, but I have added about 100 to 150 Mandarin audio files on (usually single-syllable) pinyin pages based on what I perceived as established and pervasive precedent. I think Suzukaze-c may know more about this, but I don't know where to look for the relevant policy. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:40, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Don't worry about it too much. It's just pinyin. At least the audio file is playable there - it hasn't been playable at 词 entries for months. ---> Tooironic (talk) 09:43, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
@TooironicOH! I thought it was just me! You're telling me no one can play the audio in the 词 entries? That's truly a CRIME. What is going on? One of the reasons I started adding audio files to the pinyin pages was exactly because I couldn't play the audio files on the 词 entries. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:55, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
This has been a problem for a long time. I have not IT expertise so am unable to help. ---> Tooironic (talk) 09:58, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Adding Min Nan referencesEdit

Hi, I don't think it's necessary to add Min Nan references to all those entries, especially if a word doesn't have any particular difference in meaning from the standard Chinese word. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 16:32, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Justinrleung I understand that you are saying that words like 附近 which mean the same thing in Mandarin and Min Nan need no Min Nan dictionary reference- it is not necessary to add a reference to the Min Nan dictionary. But I would like to present an argument that it is still extremely valuable to add this reference. 1) In the case of words that are not proper nouns (like hù-kīn), the dictionary I am linking to gives readers an audio file of the sound of the Min Nan pronunciation for these words, something we seemingly lack in Wikimedia Commons (there are some Min Nan pronunciations, but no hù-kīn etc.). Adding the reference to the 附近 page gives readers a chance to hear Min Nan pronunciations in the way we already give readers an opportunity to hear Mandarin Chinese pronunciations (by playing the audio file in zh-pron). This increases the utility of Wiktionary. When and if Martin vin Kiser or somebody uploads a bunch of audio files, then yeah, there will no longer be any need for the reference to the 附近 page in the Min Nan dictionary. 2) Yesterday I found two automatically-generated proper noun pronunciations on Wiktionary for districts of Taipei which gave incorrect?/alternate? Min Nan pronunciations for those names: 大安 and 松山. Adding the dictionary reference shows readers that someone has done a simple check of what could EASILY be a mistaken/misleading/not fully-representative Min Nan pronunciation. If 1/6th of the names of the districts of Taipei are not right/representative of all existing pronunciations, anything could be wrong/incompletely representative. For these reasons, I feel that all Min Nan words for which we have no Min Nan pronunciation audio files in Wikimedia Commons would be helped by adding the reference. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 22:21, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
I see. It might be better to call it "Further reading" instead of "References" per Wiktionary:Votes/2017-03/"External sources", "External links", "Further information" or "Further reading". If we want audio, we can also add a request for audio (but of course, we wouldn't want to flood that category with requests). As for the autogenerated Min Nan pronunciations, they all come from a relatively reliable source ([2]). For 松山, it probably is a mistake, but I'm not sure about 大安. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 00:21, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@Justinrleung How can I make the request for audio files that we are talking about? I think they are probably out there somewhere on the web, but that we just have to find out how to get them uploaded onto Wikimedia Commons legally. Also, even though the purpose of including the links is sometimes only for the audio file, the linked page always support some of the material on the page- the pronunciation- making it qualify as a reference in some sense in my book. I tried to use the website you linked to to search for words, but it gave me a "500 - 內部伺服器錯誤。"error. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 01:54, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
What I meant by request for audio is using {{rfap}}. I'm not sure if any of our Min Nan native speaker editors would be willing to upload some of their own pronunciations, so it might not be that effective to request for audio that way.
About references, I guess it is somewhat useful to support our entries, but I find it odd that we're only putting the link to a Min Nan dictionary. It would also be too much to put links to all possible dictionaries. As a general practice, I feel like we shouldn't put references to commonly referenced dictionaries just to reduce clutter on entries. We already list them under WT:About Chinese/references. As for the dictionary I mentioned above, try this link. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 02:10, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@Justinrleung How about now? 附近 --Geographyinitiative (talk) 21:37, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@Justinrleung I believe that my recent 附近 shows promise. But if it is still no good, consider my new edit to 老師, where I, a non-native speaker, uploaded an .ogg of myself pronouncing Min Nan and adding it to the page. (As far as I can tell, Min Nan was not included in http://packs.shtooka.net.) --Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:51, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
Sorry for my late reply. I feel like we don't really need to specify "Min Nan pronunciation audio" in front of the link because that's not the only info on the page we're linking to. Also, I'd advise against trying to record Min Nan pronunciations yourself since you're non-native. For 老師 it sounds ok enough, so I'm fine with leaving it there, but don't make more Min Nan pronunciation audio files yourself. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 04:39, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
@Justinrleung I will delete the "Min Nan pronunciation audio" qualifiers, but as long as there are no Wikimedia Min Nan pronunciation files, the link to the Min Nan dictionary is vital. I am considering contacting educational institutions in Taipei to find Min Nan pronunciation audio files that can be uploaded to Wikimedia. Any hints or tips about who or where to contact would be appreciated. I also wanted to point out another 'error'(?) from the the dictionary you gave me: the POJ/Tailuo spellings for 鶯歌 given on Min Nan Wikipedia and in the Taiwan Minnanyu Changyongci Cidian were slightly different from that of the dictionary used to automatically generate the POJ for Wiktionary. I suspect that the dictionary may have made up the pronunciation based on random guessing. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 06:34, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
@Justinrleung 有關您建議開放《臺灣閩南語常用詞辭典》音檔上傳非營利網站一事,說明如下:因辭典正在進行檢校及改版作業,部分字、音仍在檢視更新,若需調整或改動,等完成相關程序,將進行調整與公布,恐需一定時程,完成後會依據創用CC授權條款,於網頁開放民眾下載運用,請您見諒。--Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:08, 12 April 2019 (UTC)
@Justinrleung I remember we were talking about the pinyin and romanizations in zh-der somewhere, and I wanted to add another argument: all our pages order entries by alphabetical order of the name of the language in English. So I don't see why zh-der's order of picking romanizations would need to be ANY different (unless a rationale could be thought of for specific words). Just go according to the order found in zh-pron. Simple. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:35, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
I don't think it's ideal to pick any one dialect to display. Order is different from picking one over another. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 12:41, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Edit

Thank you for solving my curiosity. :) B2V22BHARAT (talk) 12:14, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

The actual origins of Chinese characters are not well understood outside of the academic community that studies the issues seriously. Making guesses is good, but it does lead to errors, and Shuowen includes some guesses. There is a gigantic literature of nonsense surrounding the issue, just like there is a gigantic literature about the Bible telling us how all the animals could have fit on the ark etc etc. You are absolutely right to question every glyph origin you see on this website and others. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 12:31, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Yeah thanks man.. It feels so good when curiosity dissolves into wind by others who know.. B2V22BHARAT (talk) 12:43, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

沒戲唱 & 没戏唱Edit

I have moved your topic to WT:GP where it belong. WT:TR deals with words, senses, parts of speech, etc, not with technical issues. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 04:45, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

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