User talk:Justinrleung/Archive 3

提子

We use this in Mandarin too. It's different to 葡萄, but I have no idea what the English would be. Any ideas? ---> Tooironic (talk) 01:12, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

@Tooironic I recently went to Fujian, and I was a bit shocked when the locals told me that 葡萄 and 提子 are different. I looked it up, and it seems like 提子 is a specific type of grape, probably American grape. It looks like some sort of red globe grape in North America. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:40, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Xiandai Hanyu Cidian defines 提子 to be "a kind of grapes that originates from America and is bigger than ordinary grapes". It can also mean a kind of 舀油、酒等的器具, with a different etymology. Dine2016 (talk) 15:47, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Problem with Cantonese Tones

Hi. I don't know where to address this problem, so I just chose to put it here. To input Cantonese pronunciations in Wiktionary, the default is Jyutping and the Yale romanization is generated from it. However, Yale differentiates a high falling and a high level tone in its romanization, while Jyutping simply writes both as the 1st tone. This creates a problem in words that have high falling tone, because they're generated Yale romanization shows a high level tone, which is wrong compared to Cantonese dictionaries using Yale romanization. The solution is either augmenting Jyutping (I've seen the high falling tone being transcribed as 1b before, but I forgot where I saw it), or switch to making Yale romanization the default. What do you think? Thanks. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 15:17, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser AFAIK, most speakers of Cantonese nowadays cannot distinguish between 55 and 53 as the two tones have merged in 新派 Guangzhou Cantonese and in Hong Kong Cantonese. I'm not sure if the current editors of Cantonese (including me) can distinguish between the two variants of the first tone without looking it up in resourses that actually distinguish the two variants, since it's quite unpredictable. Pinging @Wyang, Suzukaze-c, Kc kennylau. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 21:27, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Kenny and I had a brief exchange about the origin of the 55/53 distinction in Guangzhou Cantonese. In short, the '55' tone was originally a changed tone of the 陰平 '53' tone, equivalent to the nonexistent modern tone change of 1-2 (53-35) or Taishanese 1* (335). In {{zh-pron}} (e.g. 天), hovering over Yale tīn or IPA '⁵⁵' will give a subtle note that it may also be a high-falling variant. There is a lot of variation with tone 1 in Cantonese; I'm not sure if recording the distinction is feasible. Wyang (talk) 21:54, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

What just bothers me is that the generated Yale romanization of some Cantonese words are different from the Yale romanization in the dictionary I own. That's why I think it's worth looking into, since Cantonese dictionaries using the Yale romanization does differentiate the two. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 04:14, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser I understand that it might be worth looking into, but at this point, most people can't distinguish 55 and 53, so it might not be feasible to make a distinction, as Wyang has said. This is probably why Jyutping has slowly replaced Yale, especially on the Internet, since the distinction between 55 and 53 is no longer needed. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 15:37, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

ta4alurELPFLENTRYS(zh!:)

81.11.219.175 03:18, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

No problem!(?) — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:31, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

會當

Is the "should" sense pronounced differently in Min Nan? If not there should be no need to have different separate Pronunciation headers, right? ---> Tooironic (talk) 09:50, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

@Tooironic I split them because tàng in Min Nan should correspond to dàng in Mandarin, not dāng. Also, the Min Nan pronunciation does not seem to be used for the "should" sense. If there is a Min Nan pronunciation for the "should" sense, it would most likely be in its literary reading, which would probably be hōe-tong, but I'm hesitant about that for now. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 09:58, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Gotcha, thanks. ---> Tooironic (talk) 10:00, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

shùnhuá

According to the 现代汉语规范词典, 華 is still pronounced huá even when it is 古同“花 ”. Baidu does not agree with this though, and neither does moedict or zdic. Any thoughts? ---> Tooironic (talk) 05:16, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

@Tooironic 现代汉语规范词典 has the Mainland standard. 现代汉语词典 and Chinese Linguipedia seem to agree with it. I've changed the entry accordingly. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:19, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! ---> Tooironic (talk) 07:19, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

y.rvwenwe(wel,i)defindit?

18:44, 29 August 2016 (diff | hist) . . (+32)‎ . . 臺羅 ‎ (Undo revision 39878763 by 81.11.222.84 (talk)) (current)

ta4entryzbtw!81.11.222.84 19:38, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Tâi-lô doesn't have an entry in Wiktionary yet, so I think it's safer to link to the Wikipedia page. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:32, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

良月

Re this edit, "auspicious month" isn't actually a thing. If you were just trying to gloss the meaning of the archaic name for the lunar calendar month, that isn't where it goes. If you were just trying to say something like

1. any lucky month

or

1. any prosperous month

(which aren't the same thing) that's probably a SOP construction for which we don't actually create an entry. "Good month" has hundreds of thousands of uses around the internet but "good month" isn't an entry in the dictionary separate from "good" and "month". Now, that said, is this a technical term in Chinese astrology &c.?

1. (astrology) a auspicious month, a month believed to be favorable for [whatever]

If so, add some definition like that back into the entry, ideally with a citation or example. — LlywelynII 23:26, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

@LlywelynII I see what you mean. I got the definition (吉祥的月份) from Hanyu Da Cidian, which cites Zuo Zhuan (Duke Zhuang, 16th year). I guess it's SOP. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:13, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks for your work! — LlywelynII 01:16, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your help

I am glad I am not the only one interested in the number of syllables for English pronunciation of words. Thank you for your help, especially on the ones reverted because I used the wrong character for marking syllables. Bcent1234 (talk) 15:55, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

@Bcent1234 No problem! I was just bothered by the thousands of entries in CAT:English supposedly 1-syllable words and CAT:English supposedly 2-syllable words. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 19:51, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

侮辱

This is coming up for as me as:

   (Pinyin): wǔrǔ, wǔrù, , wūrǔ

---> Tooironic (talk) 06:22, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

@Tooironic Yeah, I don't know how to fix it yet. If I don't put the extra comma in, the expanded table only shows two of the readings. @Wyang, Kc kennylau Could you fix this? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 10:33, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Fixed. Wyang (talk) 10:53, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Common chinese cartoons

Off topic: Do you watch any common chinese cartoons? Tildes tildes tildes tildes.

憎惡

This is read in two different ways in Cantonese as well right? ---> Tooironic (talk) 09:23, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

@Tooironic Yup. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 14:11, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Xiang Lord's Prayer

According to a video I found here, it is the Lord's Prayer in Xiang Chinese, can you write the Chinese characters for this? thanks ~~Awesomemeeos (talk) 00:21, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

@Awesomemeeos I don't know enough Xiang to be sure, but I'll give it a shot:

我們在天上的父：

願人都尊祢的名為聖。

願祢的國降臨；

願祢的旨意行在地上，

如同行在天上。

我們日用的飲食，天天賜給我們。

赦免我們的罪，因為我們也赦免虧欠我們的人。

不要將我們遇到試探；救我們脫離兇惡。

— justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 18:17, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Chinese Character Dictionaries

Hi again Awesomemeeos again. Sorry to bother you again, but the resources you use for the pronunciations of Chinese characters for rare varieties such Jin, Gan and Xiang, are they online? Or are they only available in some specialized store somewhere? Thanks – Awesomemeeos (talk) 03:47, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

@Awesomemeeos The main resource I use is 現代漢語方言大詞典, specifically 南昌方言詞典 for Gan, 太原方言詞典 for Jin and 長沙方言詞典 for Xiang. (Try finding them online.) I also use 小學堂 for individual characters. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 03:55, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

@Awesomemeeos Please be cautious when using 小學堂. Make sure that it's the 南昌 dialect of Gan, 太原 dialect of Jin and 長沙 dialect of Xiang. At 因為, you used 泰寧/建寧 for Gan, which wouldn't be right. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:16, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

母

Why is a variant stroke order shown? It should be the first dot, then the line, then the other dot, instead of the two dots first.  WikiWinters ☯ 韦安智  17:39, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

@WikiWinters That's the Taiwanese standard. That being said, the page needs other stroke orders. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:19, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Teochew Chinese Bible

Hello again, is it possible that you know of a Teochew Chinese Bible anywhere, as I like studying Chinese languages. Thanks from Awesomemeeos (talk) 00:40, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

@Awesomemeeos There doesn't seem to be a full Bible in Teochew. Here's what I've found so far:

• Romanized
  • Genesis
  • Ruth to Samuel
  • 2 Samuel
  • Jonah
  • Matthew to Acts
  • Philippians to Philemon
  • James
• Audio (NT) - this is based on CUV

— justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:49, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Singing Chinese tones

Awesomemeeos again. All Chinese topolects are tonal with one tonal mistake makes you have the listener laugh like crazy. When singing in these lects how would they sing the tones as well as the melody? Thanks! Awesomemeeos (talk) 11:53, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

@Awesomemeeos I think either the melody is written with the lyrics in mind, or the lyrics are written with the melody in mind. Anyhow, the lyrics should work well with the melody in the sense that the tones are somehow embedded in the melody. Tones are relative, so if the tone of one character is relatively higher than the tone of the next, the pitch of the former would most likely be higher. Take the first line in the Chinese national anthem:

Lyrics	起	來	不	願	做	奴	隸	的	人	們
Tones	˨˩˩	˧˥	˧˥	˥˩	˥˩	˧˥	˥˩	˩	˧˥	˧˥
Jianpu	5̣	1	1	1	1	5̣	6̣	7̣	1	1
Relative tonal difference with next character	up	same	same	same	down	up	up	up	same	-
Relative pitch difference with next note	up	same	up?	same	down?	up?	down?	up	same	-

Hope this helps! — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 01:01, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for that. However I thought I heard that Cantonese emphasises this more than Mandarin?? Is that true? - Awesomemeeos (talk) 02:56, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I would think so. That's because Cantonese has both register and contour tones, which means the relative pitches really matter. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 03:07, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Dialectal synonyms for 聰明

Would it be worth creating a dialectal syonyms data page for 聰明, and is 聰明 the most ideal page title? —suzukaze (t・c) 04:58, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

@Suzukaze-c I think that'd be good. 漢語方言詞彙 has a column for this. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 05:07, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Reminder about zh-pron template categories

I found and corrected your categorization error [1] at the 遐 article. I know it's very easy to confuse "pn" with pronoun but it's actually proper noun. The text "pron" is acceptable for pronouns. Cheers! Bumm13 (talk) 10:53, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

@Bumm13 Thanks for correcting it and reminding me! It's a mistake I keep making. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 11:08, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

東西

Hi, why does the Chinese word for something literally mean east-west? Is it something to do with the positioning of things? – AWESOME meeos ！ ＊ （「欺负」我） 05:45, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure, but I guess things are in the east and in the west. @Wyang, Tooironic, maybe you two would have a better explanation? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 21:28, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure either. Some articles derive it from 動使／动使: [2][3]. Wyang (talk) 21:37, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

咱們／咱们ＶＳ我們／我们

Hi, in Mandarin Chinese, the terms 咱們／咱们 and 我們／我们 both mean 'we', but 咱們／咱们 is inclusive. Can 咱們／咱们 be replaced with 我們／我们? – AWESOME meeos ！ ＊ （「欺负」我） 02:02, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

@Awesomemeeos, I think you can, but you lose the inclusivity. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 02:08, 8 November 2016 (UTC)