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User talk:KevinUp

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Welcome!Edit

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Again, welcome! — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 12:49, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

|m_note=Only used as a component in a characterEdit

Hmm, I'm not sure this is the way to note this. |m_note= is for notes on the Mandarin pronunciation; Only used as a component in a character sounds more like a ====Usage note==== IMO. (@Wyang, Justinrleung, any opinions?) —suzukaze (tc) 05:33, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

I agree that the note should not be in the pronunciation section, but isn't "component variant" sufficient to say that it's only used as a component? Also, Cantonese muk6 seems out of place. It would be component variant of 目 instead. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 05:37, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

My ReplyEdit

This note is included for CJK Unified Ideographs characters that have a kMandarin or kCantonese pronunciation defined in Unicode but not found in any commercially available Mandarin dictionaries or national standards such as BIG5, CNS11643, GB18030. —KevinUp (talk) 06:03, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

But that doesn't mean we put the note in the pronunciation section, since it doesn't have much to do with the pronunciation. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 06:46, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
The note could be modified to "Pronunciation derived from " or "Pronunciation derived from " for characters such as and KevinUp (talk) 07:11, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

I propose that the pronunciation entry be scraped altogether for such characters that are not pronounceable on their own and have common names such as 草字頭 for , 絞絲旁 for , 豎心旁 for and 卷字頭 for KevinUp (talk) 07:11, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

A specially created box such as zh-see to indicate that the character is only used as a component may be appropriate for Unicode characters that are not dictionary characters. —KevinUp (talk) 07:30, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I think we could keep the pronunciation section but have it contain the name of the character, i.e. 艹#Pronunciation would have Mandarin: cao3 zi4 tou2, and the rest of the entry would treat as a Chinese symbol instead of word. —suzukaze (tc) 09:02, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Good idea. The pronunciation section could include the names of the character. —KevinUp (talk) 10:44, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Here are a list of symbols that I have come across: 𩙿. These are the ones that are (1) not found in dictionaries (2) mostly used as character components for ideographic description characters (⿱⿰⿵) —KevinUp (talk) 10:44, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

definitionEdit

Hi KevinUp,

You put "water rippling" as the definition of but this isn't quite accurate. Online dictionary sources state that the word means "(of a wave) turbulent", which isn't quite the same concept. Also note that the character is only used in the (possibly archaic) compound word 溭淢. Cheers! Bumm13 (talk) 13:42, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

𩶻Edit

Hey- I'm fascinated by the strange characters you are adding. Do you have a font that can display this character normally in your browser while on wiktionary? Right now it's just a box to me unless I search for it in a dictionary. Keep it up! Very cool. Thanks for any help! --Geographyinitiative (talk) 13:53, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Unihan regional codes in IDSEdit

Hi, I don't think we need to include regional codes in the IDS if there is only one IDS. We only need them for distinguishing different IDSes. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 03:16, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

  • Hi, I'm adding it to the translingual section based on the Unicode chart. It provides information where the glyph comes from. I added it so our readers can know the source of the glyph without going through the official unicode charts, which may be hard to download for those with a slow Internet connection and hard to navigate for those that are new to the charts. Since this is the translingual section, the information may also be useful for future editors to add sub-entries for languages that are not yet created or to remove entries for languages that may not be relevant. Also, this information is useful for characters that have various compatibility ideographs because many font manufacturers do not follow the Unicode standard. Here is an example of a proposed entry that might be useful to determine which glyph form belongs to which region. I hope that the wiktionary programmers can code an additional functionality in future so that when your mouse hovers over an area code it will explain what it means. For now I will not add any ids if the glyph exists across all six regions (GHTJKV). However, if the glyph is only for GHTK (such as ) or GTJV (such as ) this information may be useful for those that are studying the characters.
    (radical 181 +4, 13 strokes, cangjie input 一山一月金 (MUMBC) or X一山一月 (XMUMB), composition(G,T for U+980B or T for U+2F9FE) or ⿰⿸(K for U+FACB) or ⿰⿸⿺⿱(T for U+2F9FF))
  • Hi, this may be worth checking out: is provided by GHTK but a Vietnamese entry exists and the Korean entry is missing. —This unsigned comment was added by KevinUp (talkcontribs).
I appreciate your concern about the details of Han characters. However, this information does not belong in the IDS unless there are more than one IDSes to distinguish, like for or . We already link to the Unihan database, which should have the same info about the sources as the Unicode charts; these should be accessible even with slow Internet. While the regional sources are a good indicator for whether a character is used in the specified regions, they may not actually reflect actual usage in the regions. Many characters have a G source just because GB wants to include whole blocks for compatibility. On another note, many of the H glyphs don't actually reflect current standards in Hong Kong; the representative glyph is essentially the same as the T source glyphs. I'm fine with the info for , but for and , I'd prefer this to be in a usage note that describes actual usage. It's more complicated than what the regional codes say:
  • The G source has both characters because of what I've described above, but the actual standard would be 说 (説 as its traditional form).
  • In Taiwan, 說 is much more common than 説 in printed material; both are used in handwriting.
  • The current HK standard (HKSCS-2016) now includes , which is its actual educational standard, but 說 is still very common in publications and on computers.
  • While 説 is the current standard in Japan according to Jōyō Kanji, 說 was historically used in Japan as well.
(BTW, don't forget to sign after your comments with four tildes.) — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 19:50, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Hi. Thanks for your reply. After going through the Unihan database I agree that the same information can be obtained from the external links provided. Also, after reading your detailed explanation of and , I have to agree that the glyph sources may not necessarily reflect its current actual usage. I started adding this information because I thought it would become useful for more obscure characters such as those in the E and F extension blocks. I'll stop doing this in future edits and thanks for reminding. KevinUp (talk) 17:10, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Edit

Although historically 叄 doesn't not mean 三 in particular, here's some evidence for 叄 as the financial form of 三:

  • Hi. Thank you for providing the links. I have updated the entry based on Page 33 of 《重訂直音篇》 [1] KevinUp (talk) 04:20, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the derived charactersEdit

Hey- thanks for adding the derived characters. When I study Chinese vocabulary, I sometimes like to compare the characters with characters that have similar components. I especially enjoy the rare characters you have added. thanks! --Geographyinitiative (talk) 04:51, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

You're very much welcome. The derived characters added to the translingual section may also include characters that were invented outside of China, such as Korean made Hanja 한국제 한자 (han-gukje hanja) 韓國國字, Japanese kokuji 日本國字 and also Vietnamese Nom characters. KevinUp (talk) 09:45, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
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