Hello, and welcome to Wiktionary. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk (discussion) and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~, which automatically produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the beer parlour or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Because you're from the Wiktionnaire doesn't mean you don't deserve it! :-) — Vildricianus 20:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Please don't blank entriesEdit

Entry blanking is typically viewed as vandalism. If you contest a terms validity, please use the {{rfv}} tag. --Connel MacKenzie T C 08:11, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The word was qinquagenarian (missing u). I rfv'ed it after this message, and it was removed without any discussion in the RFV page (and do not call this removal vandalism, it is rather common sense...) Lmaltier 19:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

In that case, i.e. when you're certain it should be removed, you can include {{delete|wrong spelling}} in the entry, or move it to the right spelling. — Vildricianus 19:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Warning messagesEdit

Thank you for your message in my talk page. I now realize that the message I initially received might have been generated by a bot (this is by far the best way to explain it). But I really think that, in such cases, it should be made very clear in the message that it was automatic. Also, bots should not be made admins... :-) Lmaltier 16:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Huh? Which message is that? The Welcome message? — Vildricianus 17:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
No, I was referring to the warning message signed Connel MacKenzie. Lmaltier 17:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Ah, no, that was just Connel, not a bot :-). We don't use bots for messages here. — Vildricianus 18:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

noun verbEdit

I don't believe there is any such thing as a noun verb SemperBlotto 21:16, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

collective nounsEdit

why did you remove the superfluity of nuns? Andrew massyn 20:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Curly apostropheEdit

Please note that on en.wikt:, the ASCII apostrophe "'" is the only character we use in headwords.

The entry itself can use the "correct" apostrophe on the inflection line (and should) but article linking never works correctly when it is in the headword.

--Connel MacKenzie 15:58, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I was not aware that it was never used in headwords, and I don't understand the reason: linking should not be a problem, if the redirection (ascii -> curly) is systematic. Is there some other reason I don't see? Lmaltier 16:12, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the curly apostrophe doesn't work in "search." The Lucene search may have fixed this part-time, but the Lucene search is not always turned on (and is never up-to-date.) See Wiktionary:Beer parlour archive/July-September 05#.2AReplacement of apostrophes. --Connel MacKenzie 16:37, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
If I can jump in here: The fundamental problem with curly apostrophes -- well, it may not be a truly "fundamental" problem, but anyway the big problem -- is that they cause all sorts of confusion and problems. Eventually, technical solutions may mitigate these problems, but for now, by far the easiest and cleanest solution is just to say, "always use plain ASCII apostrophes in article titles". (Also, redirects are not a particularly good technical solution, because the work required to manually maintain them is high.) —scs 18:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I am new to the wikitionary so pls pardon me if this is not the place to add comments-i actually needed some help with french pronunciation of the word "Mobilization", I think its a word of french origin. You can pls answer my query here, i will keep checking

In French the word is written mobilisation (pronunciation (API) : mɔ.bi.li.za.sjɔ̃). This is quite a normal pronunciation in French. Lmaltier 21:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

thank you for the help with the french pronunciation, may be i got it confused with the american pronunciation. Basically i am trying to check out this theory of pronunciation by people of different countries leading to different spellings when they write those words. If you know of any documentation of the same online pls let me know. Ex-Interest being written as Int'rest.Try "tommorrow" in google and majority of the results you get will be from the middle eastern countires like Iran, Iraq and other Muslim countries.


Are you too busy on fr: to be a sysop here, or can I go ahead and nominate you now? :-) --Connel MacKenzie 19:39, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

No, thank you. It's a very surprising proposal, I contribute so little here. I'm not a sysop on fr: either and I don't think it is a good idea to be a sysop here. Lmaltier 20:51, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

French <r>Edit

Hi. There has never been a clear consensus over which IPA symbol to use here to represent the French <r>. Please consider adding your thoughts to the discussion at Wiktionary talk:About French so that we can come up with a definite policy on the matter. Cheers, Widsith 08:47, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


Finally after many color varieties I came up with the version 12b on Wiktionary:Beer parlour#More logo conversation. It hopefully avoids the tiles resembling Scrabble. Maybe you'd like to comment what do you think about this version before I start to think about the vote? :) Best regards Rhanyeia 19:56, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

After all the conversations I had I have a feeling it's too early to vote about the tile logo. Best regards Rhanyeia 13:15, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

feminine and plural participles in FrenchEdit

  • You said on the beer parlor that present participles have no feminine or plural...
So in a sentence like Une femme souriante, is souriante just an adjective?
  • You also said that some past participles have no feminine or plural...
Which ones don't? It's quite exceptional to have no feminine or plural past participle, right?
  • As for verbs in different groups than Group 1 regular -er verbs, the bot will do them eventually - a simple code change would be sufficient for now, but I'll do the -ir, -e-er, -é-er ones a while later. --Keene 09:31, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Two questionsEdit

I have two questions for you. First, would take a look at the most recent two edits of si by an anon. I figured they were incorrect, but was unsure if perhaps French had some convention about placing a space between a final word and the ending punctuation. Secondly, you made a comment on my French userpage some time back: "Et merci de ne pas vandaliser ta propre page... Lmaltier 7 février 2008 à 19:47 (UTC)", which I'm translating as "and please don't vandalize your userpage." I was wondering if you would be willing to comment on that, as I am a little unsure what might have been undesirable about the page (and there's no way I could maintain a conversation about it in French, as I don't know a single word of the language). Many thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 20:31, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


Hi Lmaltier, I've created Template:fr-conj-aitre, which is adapted from Template:fr-conj-aître. Before I set my bot to create the conjugated forms, could you double-check this is correct? I'll run the bot code for all -aitre/-aître forms together, with an ===Alternative spellings=== header before the definition like at paraîtrai. Is this acceptable or should I add something else? Merci, --Keene 12:45, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Romance language verb cleanup projectEdit

I'd like to invite you to participate in a community effort to improve the quality of common verbs in Romance languages. I've started a project page at User:EncycloPetey/Latin verbs. The plan to select (or have someone select) one or two new "verbs" each week for cleanup and expansion beyond the basic content. By "verb", I mean the corresponding entry across several Latin-descended languages, and not simply a single entry. Your help with French entries would be much appreciated. See the project page for more details and the current selection (listed near the top of the page, as well as highlighted in the tables). --EncycloPetey 06:19, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


Would you link this meta discussion from French Wiktionary please? It's about changing the Japanese letter in the tile logo image. Thank you very much. :) Best regards Rhanyeia 08:10, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Link added. Lmaltier 19:45, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


An anon removed the translations from demagogism.

--Polyglot 16:01, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand why. It's either vandalism or a mistake. Lmaltier 17:34, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
I added a few more translations. I don't suppose the word démagogisme exists in French? --Polyglot 18:14, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
démagogisme does exist in French, but is not used much, and is absent from usual dictionaries. démagogisme seems to mean something like practice of demagogy, but démagogie is usually used in both cases (are they really distinct?). The difference might be the same in English, but Wiktionary defines demagogy as demagogism... Wikipedia uses demagogy, and does not mention demagogism. Lmaltier 18:41, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

vote about curliesEdit

Please confirm your vote on Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2008-12/curly quotes in WT:ELE, the vote hadn’t started yet. H. (talk) 14:04, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

herque ?Edit

Salut. J'ai parcouru tout à l'heure l'étymologie du mot allemand Harke (et l'anglais rake, harrow) et j'ai rencontré chez les frères Grimm le mot (français ?) fr:herque qui doit signifier en français râteau de fer mais qui est introuvable dans mon dictionnaire Le Robert. Est-ce qu'il y a en effet un tel mot? Bogorm 18:23, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Eh bien, vous avez le mot dans le Wiktionnaire français (le lien ci-dessous) mais... est-ce que le mot est rare pour être exclu d'un tel dictionnaire comme Le Robert? Mot patois? Bogorm 18:27, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

This word exists, but seems to be obsolete. Lmaltier 18:30, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Merci. Je l'ajouterai quand même. Est-ce que mon français est maladroit? Bogorm 18:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
No, not at all, your French is perfect. But here, I consider we should use English (and everybody should use French on fr.wiktionary...) Lmaltier 19:42, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


Hi Lmaltier,

Would you be interested in being nominated for adminship here?

RuakhTALK 03:01, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Now that I'm an experienced admin on fr.wiktionary, why not here too (provided that you don't require me to do anything special, and knowing that I won't use admin tools much, as I'm mainly active on fr.wiktionary). Lmaltier 06:07, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Understood. I've created the vote — see Wiktionary:Votes/sy-2009-04/User:Lmaltier for admin — please add Babel and timezone information, and accept the nomination. (Also, if you don't mind, please add Babel information to your user-page, using {{Babel}}.) Thanks! —RuakhTALK 10:45, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Re: [1]Edit

That vote has been closed for two years now. Conrad.Irwin 16:08, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

You are right, but I hope it's never too late to participate to a discussion... Lmaltier 16:22, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

French verbsEdit

Hi lol. Is there any way that Lmaltier bot (or its script) could be used on here to create all the missing verb forms; there are loads of red links in French verb articles on here. Mglovesfun 18:58, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Its task queue is already too long... And a "French verb bot" already exists here. Lmaltier 19:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't think it does, actually, not since Keenebot2. I'd be interested to run the bot for you, but will need help with writing the code.
However, I have created my own bot, which is working well. Id like to introduce you to User:Dawnraybot. --Rising Sun 10:23, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

topological spaceEdit

Please be bold. I made the only change I could think of to make this work, but if you have a better idea, don't let me stop you. :-)   —RuakhTALK 15:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Alphabetical sorting for FrenchEdit

When you have the time, could you add comments under the French portion of User_talk:Conrad.Irwin#Galician_index? I'm helping Conrad to use a bot to generate updated Index pages for severla major Romance languages. See Index:Galician or Index:Hungarian for an example of what the bot does. Key issues are (1) which letters / digraphs are indexed separately, and (2) what sequence is used for diacriticals. Your input would be appreciated. --EncycloPetey 17:41, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


See the entry I made at

, which covers what you're talking about. The Nouveau Petit Robert (2007) entry is (correctly) in the plural.

means (as noted at

) "a plant from the Fabaceae family". Comapre [2] and [3], both of which explicitly give

as the equivalent of

(which are usually treated as a mass noun in English, AFAIK). Circeus 17:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

OK. I agree. But what's the point of your note in -acées, if the singular is possible? Lmaltier 20:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
The singular is NOT possible, because the families are NOT referred to in the singular, and using the {{pluralia tantum}} template would have been inappropriate. Circeus 22:44, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
If this is what you mean, the note does not help: it's obvious from the meaning, and therefore it's not specific to French. But something more specific to French is that the singular is possible, when the word refers to a single plant or a single animal (that's the meaning of singular!) In such a case, pluralia tantum does not make sense, because this term means that no associated singular exists. This makes the note very misleading (I can tell you, it misled me). Lmaltier 05:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
"Pluralia tantum" means that in that meaning it is not possible to use the word in the singular, or the word applies to something that is a single item. By your logic, or may not be marked as pluralia tantum ever! Circeus 01:21, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
But fabacées and fabacée have the same meaning: family or member of this family... Lmaltier 05:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

autre pays, autre coutumeEdit

This is in the Category:French words needing attention, I've never heard of it, you? Mglovesfun (talk) 16:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it does exist, no problem. Lmaltier 16:42, 9 July 2009 (UTC) But the translation is very disputable (the meaning is more general). Lmaltier 16:45, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Well I've got the category down to ten members, the next one's to check are sans phrase, mauvaise honte, people and taboune. Mglovesfun (talk) 17:11, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


Hi Lmaltier. I answered to your inquiry on the ban of Ancient Hebrew on Ruakh's talkpage, but he apparently deleted my comment as "inappropriate". I'm not sure that you've read it in the meantime so, I'll copy it here, as it contains IMHO some pretty important perspectives:

SIL/ISO is not the absolute arbitrator of what constitutes a "language" or not. Our needs for L2 sections are driven by practical considerations of writing a dictionary. Hence we use single L2 "Albanian" instead of the 4 L2s [4] which SIL categorizes inside this "macrolanguage" (normal standard Albanian is Tosk, others are subliterary). We treat Ancient Greek from Homeric era to Late Byzantine all within one L2 "Ancient Greek" (even though there's in-process proposal for ISO code for Middle Greek gkm, which we'll ignore). We have one L2 "Estonian" and not 2 L2s for "Standard Estonian" and Võro, which SIL/ISO categorize as if belonging to that "macrolanguage" [5]. We have one L2 "Mongolian" and not 2 L2s for Halh Mongolian and "Peripheral Mongolian" SIL/ISO categorize as if belonging to that "macrolanguage" [6]. We have one L2 for ==Pashto== and not 3 [7], one L2 for ==Uzbek== and not 2 [8], one L2 for Yiddish and not 2 [9]. And so forth. Serbo-Croatian is no difference with regards to these. Moreover: Serbo-Croatian varieties are all based on the same dialects, whilst these that SIL/ISO organize as separate "individual languages" belonging to the same "macrolanguage" that we here nevertheless treat as one language are all based on different dialects. According to Greenberg (in his book, the chapter on conclusions) - that situation is unprecedented in the world, which makes it even more ridiculous to insist on "separate languages". It would make much more sense to advocate as different languages the dialects of e.g. Albanian- lots of which are not mutually intelligible, then of SC varieties. Even within the territory of Croatia, some dialects are not really mutually intelligible (e.g. Kajkavian from Bednja, and Čakavian from Krk). The point is: we're writing a dictionary and must make some compromises with regard to both SIL/ISO and the "real world". --Ivan Štambuk 21:23, 10 July 2009 (UTC)}}

So in essence, we've be silently "banning languages" for a long, long time now, and no one seems to have been bothered when it is naturally completely justified thing to do. SC should be of no difference to the listed cases. --Ivan Štambuk 00:33, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

If ISO defines something as a separate language, this means that at least some people consider it as a separate language. Right? Therefore, it's a matter of opinion. You are entitled to your opinion. But the project is not allowed to choose this opinion as the right one and to base its contents on this opinion (NPOV principle). Without this principle, it would be very easy for any organization or any State to promote any polemical opinion through the project. The project cannot endorse any polemical opinion. Lmaltier (talk) 21:38, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

St. Elmo's fireEdit

Wouldn't that be a proper noun? Mike Halterman 19:24, 17 July 2009 (UTC)


Not from me, but here. Also [[Category:French words needing attention]] might interest you too. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:50, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

venter à décorner les bœufsEdit

Is this good French and worth having it's own page? It's a bit like rain cats and dogs in English. Mglovesfun (talk) 15:55, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. Yes, it's good French. The infinitive is very rare. Lmaltier 16:08, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Wanted French articlesEdit

User:Mglovesfun/To do, from WT:FREQ#French words. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:23, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm too busy on fr.wikt to contribute much here and, anyway, the fact that CFI are used as a reason to delete real, existing, words (despite the introduction of the page) is rather dissuasive. I don't want words I add to be deleted, it would be a waste of time. Lmaltier 19:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)


Seems wrong or inaccurate to me. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:57, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I tried to make it more precise. You might improve it further. Lmaltier 11:40, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

faire le grand sautEdit

Wiktionary:Requests for verification#faire le grand saut (no message, that's it). Mglovesfun (talk) 16:12, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Recent revertEdit

Why did you revert a recent addition to the Beer Parlour made by Equinox. He is a fellow administrator, so surely, instead of using rollback to revert it, you could have used the undo button? Secondly, it was not correct to revert that edit as it was a correctly made edit. Thanks, Razorflame 22:42, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I was not aware of this revert. Probably an unintended click. Lmaltier 05:23, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

ganse, gansetteEdit

Can you fix these both here and on fr:gansette. I'm not sure that "braid" is the right translation (but maybe it is). Mglovesfun (talk) 12:38, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure either. I'm afraid I cannot help. Lmaltier 22:29, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Category:Tbot entries (French)Edit

The "oldest tagged". Some of these seem suspect, like faire feu and point d'inflexion. No fr interwiki for me to check either. Mglovesfun (talk) 19:10, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

faire feu and point d'inflexion were OK. Lmaltier 20:38, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

A little messageEdit

I just wanted to say, that despite our many differences of opinion, I've always respected you as a good Wiktionary editor. Keep going, don't give up, and I'm sorry if I acted like a complete dick (which I did). Mglovesfun (talk) 13:06, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your message. The problem is contagion. Lmaltier 17:10, 25 January 2010 (UTC)


Ever heard of the rfv'd sense? Mglovesfun (talk) 23:18, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

No. And I don't know what sense of slapper is meant. Lmaltier 06:25, 3 March 2010 (UTC)~ However, fr.wikt seems to have this sense, with a reference from an old dictionary. Lmaltier 06:27, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Votes/2010-04/Voting policyEdit

I urge you to vote. (I don't know which way you'll vote, but I want more voices, especially English Wiktionarians' voices, heard in this vote.) If you've voted already, or stated that you won't, and I missed it, I apologize.​—msh210 17:00, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

WT:RFDO#Category:English homophonesEdit

I'm requesting your input, please.​—msh210 (talk) 16:08, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Clarification of language inclusionEdit

Just letting you know that I changed the wording of Clarification of language inclusion to be restricted to languages that are not natural. I don't think it will affect your vote, but it's important to make sure you're aware. DAVilla 15:57, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

No, it does not change my vote. General and very inclusive criteria have first to be defined to clarify the "all languages" criterion we already use. Having clear and very simple principles and avoiding arbitrary decisions through votes is much more important than trying to take too many "best" decisions, because this "best" is always somewhat subjective. Lmaltier 16:05, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Poll on formatting of etymologiesEdit

I would like to know your preference as regards the use of "<" vs "from" in the formatting of etymologies in Wiktionary, whatever that preference is. Even explicit statement of indifference would be nice. You can state your preference in the currently running poll: WT:BP#Poll: Etymology and the use of less-than symbol. I am sending you this notification, as you took part on some of the recent votes, so chances are you could be interested in the poll. The poll benefits from having as many participants as possible, to be as representative as possible. Feel free to ignore this notification. --Dan Polansky 10:49, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Vote on formatting of etymologiesEdit

There is the vote Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2011-02/Deprecating less-than symbol in etymologies, which would benefit from your participation, even if only in the role of an abstainer. Right now, the results of the vote do not quite mirror the results of the poll that has preceded the vote. There is a chance that the vote will not pass. The vote, which I thought would be a mere formality, has turned out to be a real issue. You have taken part on the poll that preceded the vote, which is why I have sent you this notification. --Dan Polansky 08:26, 10 March 2011 (UTC)


Hi Lmaltier, I've replied to you at the Beer Parlour. Please would you reply to my comments? :-) -- PoliMaster talk/spy 10:25, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

No. I've already explained my opinion. It's a general statement, not directed at you. But you are so insistent about this little detail that it's normal to be suspicious. Lmaltier 16:46, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Votes/2011-07/Categories of namesEdit

The vote Categories of names is going to end soon, after receiving contributions of only a few people. (it proposes a number of renamings, in this pattern: Category:en:Rivers to Category:English names of rivers)

It would benefit very much from your vote, even one of abstention.

I assume you would be interested in this subject, as I am sending this message to everyone who didn't vote yet, but participated in the discussion that introduced the vote, and/or in this poll, which received far more attention than the vote, and is closely related to the proposal in question.

Thank you. --Daniel 16:42, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Wiktionary:Votes/2011-10/Categories of names 3Edit

Because you voted in Wiktionary:Votes/2011-07/Categories of names, I'm informing you of this new vote.​—msh210 (talk) 01:55, 17 October 2011 (UTC)


hi, can you confirm that a pensionnat is only used for single-sex boarding schools? --Simplus2 11:44, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

No, this does not belong to the definition. This is not always the case (cf. Wikipedia link). Lmaltier 19:23, 8 December 2011 (UTC)


Bonjour! You probably know better than anyone whether using "garçon" to mean "waiter" is dated/rude in modern French. When you get a chance, could you comment in that discussion?

ISO 639, warts and allEdit

You've often said that all languages with an ISO 639 code should be included. Does this include mistakes? For example {{ciw}} was deleted because it refers to the same language as {{oj}}. Remember that ISO 639 isn't neutral, because it's an organisation made up of human beings. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:10, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I say that they should be allowed (if somebody wants to work on them), it's not the same thing. Of course, I don't promote mistakes. I've not looked at the case you mention but, anyway, they cannot belong to the same standard (2 letters and 3 letters), this was not a mistake from ISO. Lmaltier (talk) 19:03, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
This was a mistake. You need to learn more about ISO standards, both 2 letters and three letters are used in the same standard. We would be duplicating ridiculously. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 06:19, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
No, the ISO639-3 code for Ojibwe is oji (3 letters; the ISO639-1 code was oj, but this is not the same standard). It's considered as a macrolanguage including 8 individual languages, including Chippewa (code: ciw; there was no separate ISO639-1 code for this language). See w:Ojibwe language. In other words, the language has been divided into 8 languages. There is no reason to exclude these individual languages: some people consider them as dialects, but other people consider them as languages, or ISO would not have defined codes for them. Note that Occitan has been divided into several languages by ISO, and that they came back to a single language. This might happen in this case too, I don't know, but, if a specialist wants to create words for these individual languages, he should be allowed to. Lmaltier (talk) 07:27, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Part of the English vocabularyEdit

We've been having this discussion on-and-off for years now, so I suspect this will achieve nothing, but here goes:

It's not the role of a dictionary to say what is and what is not part of the English vocabulary. The reason is, it provides no useful function. Our job isn't to make a list of English phrases, or English terms for concepts. That's not a dictionary. So if you come across gut flora in a sentence, you have no need to know if it's part of the English vocabulary or not, because it's in an English sentence, of course it's English! So essentially you're trying to provide information no one wants. If you were making a reverse dictionary where you input a concept and it comes up for a term with it, this sort of thing would be useful.

I know it's not the reason you're doing it, but it appears to me like you're trying to put the administration side ahead of the user side. Users do not want to know if something is part of the English vocabulary not, they want to know what things mean. And we have the definition at gut and at flora, as you know. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:05, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

This is one of many reasons to set up a phrasebook project, IMO. We could offer phrasebooks for all kinds of specialised areas (chemistry, computing, arts, law...) if we did it properly. I just don't like it being mixed with the main dictionary. Equinox 23:08, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

You forget that a language dictionary describes the vocabulary of the language, and that people also use a dictionary when they want to write a text, either to find appropriate words or to check that the word they think to can be used in this case. Tools such as categories are very helpful for this kind of use. Wikisaurus should be very important, too, when you write texts on a topic. A phrasebook has a very different objective, I think. Lmaltier (talk) 07:44, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

But how would you look stuff up? If I have a concept in my head like "the substance DNA is made of", how can I look that up in a dictionary? Mglovesfun (talk) 10:18, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Categories should help, especially if they are not too large, and especially if you've already heard the word but cannot remember it (provided the appropriate category exists, of course). If no appropriate category exists, Wikisaurus can be used. Of course, this cannot answer all questions. But if you don't remember how microorganisms living in the intestine are called, you might have a look at the category Microorganisms in English or Gastroenterology in English or similar categories. Or if you don't remember the Japanese name of a fish species, you can have a look at Fish in Japanese. Unfortunately, using language codes in actual topical categories does not help readers... Are topical categories ever used by casual readers? I doubt it. Using clear names would make them much more useful. Lmaltier (talk) 10:37, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Some people also use random entry (by language) to add new words to their vocabulary. This is a very different use, for a long-term objective, but this is a use. Lmaltier (talk) 10:55, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
I agree, but I'd consider this to be beyond the role of a dictionary. But I was wrong, I think this discussion has been productive. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:01, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Tit-for-tat discussion closing request.Edit

Greetings, Lmaltier. I have recently proposed in the Beer parlour that since WT:RFD and WT:RFV are perpetually backlogged with discussions that should have been closed long ago, it would be nice if editors adding a new section to one of these pages would find one of the many old sections ready for closure and close it, or a closed section ready for archiving, and archive it. Since you have added a new RfD section, please consider closing or archiving an old one. Cheers! bd2412 T 21:04, 8 August 2013 (UTC)


Bonjour! Do you happen to know what this word means? The entry has several citations but no definition. (Also, fr.Wikt has a verb "vionnet" which our entry lacks.) - -sche (discuss) 03:12, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Done. But this word is regional, and rare. Lmaltier (talk) 19:56, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Merci! - -sche (discuss) 22:33, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Also note that this is not a verb at all, it's a noun. The mention verb was my mistake. Lmaltier (talk) 06:38, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

economic blockadeEdit

This will probably be +tagged for deletion again, so you might want to participate in the upcoming discussions. WritersCramp (talk) 10:40, 3 May 2014 (UTC)


Hi! On the talk page, a user has questioned whether we're defining this word correctly. fr:douceâtre does seem to define it somewhat differently. Could you take a look and correct the definition if necessary? - -sche (discuss) 15:17, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes, sweetish seems a better definition (but in a derogatory sense). The definition was not so bad, but too strong. Lmaltier (talk) 17:44, 15 June 2014 (UTC)


Hello Lmaltier. Could you tell me whether this text is written in Middle French, please? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 20:15, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it's (rather modern) Middle French. Lmaltier (talk) 18:02, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. I've added the ridiculously long sentence from that source to Citations:perfinition. Do you know enough Middle French to tell me what the word means? It may help to know that it very probably derives from the Mediaeval Latin perfīnītiō (a decision). — I.S.M.E.T.A. 19:59, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
You are right, it very probably derives from perfinitio. And I agree that perfinitio very probably derives from per + finitio. But I'm surprised by the definition provided here. Finitio may already indicate the termination, and per- still insists on the complete termination. This seems to be the meaning of perfinition: it seems to be a legal term, and is seems that perfinition de temps means when the time is 100% elapsed. But I don't know Middle French. Lmaltier (talk) 21:33, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

You opinion on an editEdit

This edit (diff) is by an IP who's obviously Fête/Phung Wilson. So far, he's just been asking our newer Chinese admins a bunch of questions in Chinese about French pronunciation, so I haven't blocked him, but this looks like he may be back to his old attempts to remake Canadian French pronunciation in his own image. Does this seem like a legitimate edit? Chuck Entz (talk) 07:14, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

I have no idea about the "Quebec" pronunciation. He's not really competent on pronunciation, but it sometimes happens that his changes are quite justified, that's all I know. Lmaltier (talk) 21:05, 15 October 2014 (UTC)


Hi! If this is a real French verb, could you define it? If it's not a real verb, I'll need to delete all the inflected forms someone created for it (Special:WhatLinksHere/surbasser). - -sche (discuss) 09:20, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Most often, it's a typo for surpasser or surbaisser. However: 1. it seems that, in architecture, surbassé has been used as well as surbaissé (but I cannot find citations clearly showing that it was used as a verb). 2. I also find surbassé used for music, and very few uses clearly using a verb surbasser (try to Google "il surbasse" and "qui surbasse"). I think I can guess the sense (make music overbassed), but I'm not a specialist. Lmaltier (talk) 21:34, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Using passer and sortir with êtreEdit

Do passer and sortir use être under exactly the same circumstances? Their usage notes are a little different, and I'm not sure if that's meant to imply that the terms use être under different circumstances or not. If they use être under the same circumstances, I'd like to reword Template:U:fr:may take être as much as needed and deploy it on both entries; otherwise, there doesn't seem to be a use for that template (it's currently unused and there's no point in templatizing usage notes that only apply to a single entry) and I'd like to delete it, unless you know of other entries that could use it. - -sche (discuss) 20:51, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, this template is OK, it applies to both entries, but a more complete list is (at least) descendre, monter, passer, redescendre, remonter, rentrer, repasser, rerentrer, rerepasser, reressusciter, reretourner, ressortir, ressusciter, retourner, sortir. This list is not limitative (when you add re- to a verb, this is the same rule). Actually, avoir or être is used depending on the meaning, and this is best explained with examples, but the template seems to be a good summary: when used transitively (or with a transitive sense, even when the complement is omitted), it's always avoir. Otherwise, it's être. Lmaltier (talk) 21:14, 9 February 2015 (UTC)