Talk:Plenty Coups

RFD discussion: July–August 2021

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Plenty Coups

It's a specific individual's name, defined as that individual. Because the society he was from seems to have not used last names when naming people—perhaps one might be listed on some US government form? but if so, Wikipedia makes no mention of it—I'm not sure this is covered by the letter of WT:NSE, but I think that's an oversight in WT:NSE we may want to address. Or do we want dictionary entries for lots of individual Native Americans, e.g. Pretty Eagle, We'wha, Pretty Shield, Finds Them and Kills Them, Goes Ahead, ... (BTW, someone may also want to look into whether to RFD Maha Kassapa and Mahapajapati Gotami.) - -sche (discuss) 21:39, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Delete. Imetsia (talk) 01:13, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

I would like to point out that there are a quarter of a billion people in Indonesia who are not legally required to have a surname. You'd be surprised how many people there are who try to create Wikipedia-style articles about themselves or about their favorite celebrities. Most of them get stopped by abuse filters, but by no means all. If there are any loopholes that might prevent us from deleting even a tiny fraction of those, that has the potential to be a real problem. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:18, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

The loophole is that WT:NSE says "No individual person should be listed as a sense in any entry whose page title includes both a given name or diminutive and a family name or patronymic", but every Indonesian (or Indian) whose full name consists of just a given name or two is technically in the clear. Perhaps we could add something about not listing an individual person as a sense in an entry whose page title "is the person's full name" or "is the person's name". Obviously, we should think about how to word this, and what might be impacted that we wouldn't want to impact (e.g., is Jesus Jesus's full name? we probably want to keep that entry regardless). - -sche (discuss) 07:42, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

There may be some irony in including (quite rightly) John the Baptist, Mary Magdalene, and fictitious characters like John Bull and Uncle Sam. George Washington has crept in somehow. The problem (for us) is knowing where to draw the line. I'm leaning toward delete here. DonnanZ (talk) 08:59, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

FWIW, George Washington is defined as slang for "a dollar bill", rather than the specific individual who served as US president; that's how that one has an entry. - -sche (discuss) 17:41, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

I read the entry; my comment was slightly tongue-in-cheek... DonnanZ (talk) 18:07, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Delete. I cannot see any justification for this. Mihia (talk) 21:05, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

I tend to lean keep where it's a very ancient historical or legendary name, like Aladdin or Zeus or Huitzilopochtli. Actual politicians or figures whose birth can be traced (e.g. George Washington) I would say a strong nope, because that's something Wikipedia can deal with better than we can. I think this gentleman probably falls on the latter side. Equinox ◑ 06:06, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Delete. Encyclopedia material. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 19:14, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Keep, it’s an exonym. We should definitely have all of them individual Native Indians, as they are English calques from the source languages. These names are not the same as autonyms like Abraham Lincoln (the link’s blue owing to some other sense). ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 23:22, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

RFD-deleted. Imetsia (talk) 17:28, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I notice we also have Son of the Morning Star. (Perhaps I'll RFD it later, or someone else will.) - -sche (discuss) 17:29, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

@-sche Also Aleek-chea-ahoosh (and Crow Alaxchíiahu). J3133 (talk) 05:09, 25 August 2021 (UTC)