Talk:and all

RfC discussion

Tagged but not listed. --Connel MacKenzie 21:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Could someone take a look at what I've done with this? DCDuring TALK 01:29, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Silence taken as assent. DCDuring TALK 17:35, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

RFV discussion

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification.

Please do not modify this conversation, though feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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Rfv-sense

1. (in the form "X and all") including X

   He ate the whole fish, bones and all.

2. et cetera

Has been listed in requests since 2007 --Volants 16:23, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean this as an {{rfd-redundant}}? The three senses (the two above and the one, "Including every associated object, attribute, or process", not listed) seem combinable to me.​—msh210℠ 17:09, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

But sometimes it means "and absolutely everything", sometimes it is used to highlight the unexpected components of all, sometimes to leave unstated implications (as for politeness). I'm not sure that it means "etc." We may end up with redundancy, but first we should be inclusive. It may be that some of the nuances could go in a usage note, but first attestation confirming that the term is actually used in the manner suggested seems appropriate. This is not something that seems well covered by other dictionaries, so we have little authority to rely on. Perhaps, in the end, it will not meet CFI. DCDuring TALK 18:52, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, "including X" (or, worded better imo, "including even X") sees clearly widespread use, then.​—msh210℠ 18:57, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Or even "To Say Nothing of the D". Pingku 19:24, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Striking. DCDuring has addressed this by merging these two senses into another, non-RFV'd sense (and adding three cites for said sense). Thanks for your work, DCDuring! —Ruakh_TALK 00:36, 4 September 2010 (UTC)