Talk:nom de plume

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nom de plume

French section. I’ve heard that nom de plume is made-in-English French coined on the pattern of the genuinely French nom de guerre. I’d like to see the earliest French citation of usage available, as well as a referenced etymology. † ﴾^(u):Raifʻhār ^(t):Doremítzwr﴿ 02:17, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

It's possible that the word is made-in-English French, I don't know, but nom de plume is also used in French, with the same meaning as pseudonyme, but only when applied to a writer. Also note that there are examples of English words originating from French, then borrowed by French from English (e.g. fuel). Lmaltier 14:25, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

It's also listed in the TLFi under (deprecated template usage) nom, though I've never been able to identify how the references work in there. I think the sources (dated 1970 and 77) might be for dictionaries. Circeus 17:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

The first recorded use of nom de plume was in 1823. It was coined by English writers from pen name by analogy with nom de guerre. —Stephen 20:42, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, they're http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/915733 and http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/2474232. (I don't know a general foolproof way to track down them down, such as a page that lists them all; in this case I was able to find them by Googling last-name + "dictionnaire", but that doesn't always work.) —Ruakh_TALK 06:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I've added the earliest relevant-seeming b.g.c. hits for "son nom de plume" (1874) and "le nom de plume" (1655). Though I'm starting to wonder if I misparsed the "le nom de plume" hit: I took it as "le {nom de plume} d’{Amyclée}", but now I think it might be "le {nom de {plume d’Amyclée~}" (as in, not "the nom de plume 'Amyclae'", but rather "the name of 'feather of Amyclae'"). —Ruakh_TALK 06:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

With regard to 'le nom de plume d’Amyclée', remember that nom can mean noun, too (but I'm not actually hazarding any guesses of my own as to how to parse the sentence). — Beobach972 23:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Cited, and etymologies corrected per this discussion. —Ruakh_TALK 22:00, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

RFV passed. —Ruakh_TALK 21:21, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Etymology section

My edit comment wasn't clear, what I meant to say is that each element should be separated (like it was before this change), because the noun phrase "nom de plume" didn't exist in French when it was coined in English. Thibaut (talk) 07:53, 13 July 2022 (UTC)