Talk:who cares

Tea room discussion

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This entry has two senses. The first is "a reply to an unimportant statement by a speaker, indicating indifference". The second, which I have added is "a reply that diminishes the importance of the immediately preceding statement of another speaker". I believe that the only inclusion-worthy definition is the second. What say all? DCDuring TALK 12:03, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

To clarify, the "unimportance" of the statement is not inherent. It is what the second speaker asserts. DCDuring TALK 12:14, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Maybe an example sentece can help..."who cares if a tree fell in the woods when no one was around to hear it fall down?" --Rising Sun talk? contributions 12:21, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

That's not an example of either sense. It is not a reply. DCDuring TALK 12:33, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

It is the same as so what, which has a reasonable example sentence, which can be imitated, and only one definition, which I think is all that is needed for who cares, as per DCD. -- ALGRIF talk 10:54, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

I think you could have replaced the definition line with yours instead of adding the latter and (informally in the TR) nominating the original for deletion. But I think this is SoP anyway: Consider what do I care, which means "I do not care"; what's the difference, "there is no difference"; where else would I be, "I wouldn't be anywhere else"; etc. This is just a standard rhetorical use of wh- questions to indicate the absence (in the speaker's belief) of any answer. They're not entryworthy. Who cares is the same. (To be honest, where else would I be is a more strongly deletable than the others, as it's not in my experience used with a statement intonation. But the others are, so are the same as who cares. Doubtless y'all can think of many other similar sentences.)​—msh210℠ 19:33, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

They seem to me to belong in a good phrasebook (which can't dispense with most of the accoutrements of a full entry, BTW). NTC's Dictionary of Everyday American English Expressions has 20 phrases under "indifference". DCDuring TALK 21:19, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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who cares

Previous discussion: Talk:who cares.

—Ruakh_TALK 21:10, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Comment: Ruakh's nomination was of sense 1 only. I then added sense 2 to the nomination.​—msh210℠ (talk) 23:06, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Delete both senses as SOP. If the community's decision is that this is not SOP, then delete one sense as redundant anyway: they're identical (per DCDuring in the old discussion).​—msh210℠ (talk) 21:21, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Keep the brilliant wording of the second sense for the phrasebook entry, unless we've decided to delete all phrasebook entries on the grounds that no one is interested enough to push through an intelligible overall scheme for it. The wording of the two definitions is not close to identical. The first makes assumptions about the situation that the second does not, IMHO. DCDuring TALK 22:42, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, the first says that the statement is unimportant or irrelevant, as opposed to the second, which (essentially) says that the speaker deems it so, but I assume that that's an error in definition-writing, not an error in the definition writer's intent. That is, I think the first sense means to say what the second says. Since nomination here, the entry's been tagged as a phrasebook entry, in which case I have to plead nolo contendere: we have no set rules for the phrasebook, but certainly who cares is a "very common expression" and I suppose it's "useful to non-native speakers".​—msh210℠ (talk) 23:03, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I feel like there is an idiomatic definition here; not sure what it is, though, or if our two definitions cover it. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:42, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

What could be more idiomatic and literal? It really needs some kind of non-gloss definition to explain its use, but without too many assumptions about the use situation. DCDuring TALK 01:31, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Keep. It is a rhetorical and idiomatic reply; no one actually expects the other person to tell you "who" cares. ---> Tooironic 03:36, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

That issue has been discussed already in the previous discussion, linked to above, q.v.​—msh210℠ (talk) 04:19, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Keep second rendering. I think it is a speech act; specifically a w:perlocutionary act. On the most superficial level, it indicates the speaker is dismissive of what was previously said or spoken about. On other levels, it may indicate the speaker believes most people would be so dismissive; or it might be said simply to shock. — Pingku^dimmi 04:44, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Keep at least one sense. The second sense was added by DCDuring who then questioned the need for the first definition in Tea room. So it seems DCDuring was merely asking for approval for his replacing the first definition with the second one. Both phrasings of definitions are non-gloss ones. A gloss definition could read like "I think your previous statement is unimportant or irrelevant" or, stronger, "Your previous statement is unimportant or irrelevant". Variations are along the choice of "previous statement" vs "immediately preceding statement"; and "unimportant" vs "irrelevant", "not making any difference", and "such that most people don't care". The entry seems to be one for a proto-sentence or a sentence-like thing rather than an "interjection", so the heading "phrase" would suit better I think. --Dan Polansky 08:56, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

To respond to Ruakh's request[1], I support the deletion of "A reply to an unimportant or irrelevant statement, indicating indifference on the part of the speaker" getting deleted, provided the other sense remains. I think the definition should be rewritten into a gloss one anyway. --Dan Polansky 08:59, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I've added some citations (all a little dated) in the hope this might inform the discussion. — Pingku^dimmi 14:42, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Both are speech acts. Keep. DAVilla 06:18, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

kept. -- Prince Kassad 10:14, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

what do you care

Isn't what do you care a synonym? --Backinstadiums (talk) 12:23, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Other ways of saying What do you care? are What business is it of yours? and Butt out. Who cares? suggests nobody cares. DCDuring (talk) 19:18, 14 November 2019 (UTC)