Template talk:el-noun

face=, lang=

Does anyone mind if I edit this template for general clean-up — face=head/face=bold, lang=el, etc.? —Ruakh_TALK 01:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

sounds like this should be done —Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 14:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

O.K.; I've put what I plan to do at User:Ruakh/Template. —Ruakh_TALK 18:09, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I am unable to give a considered response without spending a couple of hours sorting out the syntax - whose structure I have now forgotten - I originally put it together by trial and error :). I'm sure your changes are good. —Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 06:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Done, thanks. :-)   Note that the changes will take a while to clear the job queue. —Ruakh_TALK 17:27, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Spacing

I'm seeing a lot of extra spaces before a plural, take for example Άγγλος (Ánglos). Mglovesfun (talk) 15:35, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

That was done this past Sunday, presumably intentionally, in this edit. Personally, I think it was a bad change. —Ruakh_TALK 00:05, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I've removed a couple of spaces. —Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 05:10, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

There are still three spaces, SFAICT. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:30, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

see below. (SFAIC ?)

I've now created [[SFAICT]]. —Ruakh_TALK 16:36, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Plural in the inflection line

Are there any opinions on removing the plural form once the declension is in place? —Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 05:11, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean, in any given entry, once a full declension table has been added, changing {{el-noun|m|filakas|φύλακες}} to just {{el-noun|m|filakas}}? Or do you mean, overall, once declension tables are widespread, editing the template to remove support for {{{3}}}? If the former, I think that sounds reasonable; if the latter, I'm less sure. (But in either case I'm happy to defer to you.)

By the way, I've noticed that the template output looks rather different from other inflection templates. It currently looks like this:

φύλακας m (filakas)   plural: φύλακες

whereas I believe most inflection templates produce something more like this:

φύλακας (filakas) m (plural φύλακες)

with transliteration before gender, like how {{t}} does it, and with the inflections in parentheses rather than set off by spaces. I'm O.K. with this if you prefer it — for that matter, I said above that I thought the excess spaces were bad change, but again, I'm O.K. with them since you apparently prefer them — but I thought it worth mentioning. If you don't specifically prefer the current setup, then the other setup has the advantage of making the plural form a bit less obtrusive IMHO; it feels like a more "natural" part of the inflection line, I think.

—Ruakh_TALK 12:18, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Some years ago I suggested that we needed a page showing an ideal inflection line for all languages. We could then aim for something. At Vahag's suggestion the other day I removed the plural transliteration, they've gone - to my mind the present layout looks better - but without a house style on show I have just blundered on. The same points apply to declension/conjugation tables - we really need a house style for these - and another page of epitomes. —Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 15:25, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Gender forms in the headword line

When looking at the entry for a word like δάσκαλος used not to be immediately obvious that there was a feminine form - which would be shown distantly below under Related forms. So, following the example shown in French (see auteur ) and Russian поэт) I have added these options to the template. In addition, following Ruakh's suggestion above I have placed the transliteration immediately after the headword with the gender abbreviation following this. I have not put the plural/femine forms within parenthises - the brackets seem unnecessary, and with their proximity to the transliteration brackets, clumsy.

Please comment! —Saltmarsh^{talk-συζήτηση} 05:01, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Common gender nouns

Holton, Mackridge and Philippaki-Warburton's Greek: A comprehensive grammar … refers to some Greek nouns has having common gender - words like γιατρός (doctor) and βουλευτής (politician) - which decline in masculine fashion, but take either masculine or feminine articles and adjectives. How do we indicate this in the headword line:

• As in βουλευτής with "m and f", or
• As in γιατρός with "c"

Once it is decided which is preferable suitable changes to this template will put the decision into effect. — Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 05:39, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I vote m or f. --WikiTiki89 (talk) 06:37, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I, too, would prefer m or f; it seems like c is better suited to languages that don't distinguish m from f, and only distinguish c from n. On the other hand, what do other dictionaries do? - -sche (discuss) 06:54, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I haven't come across any that use c - older ones (Kriaras & Pocket Oxford) just use m - the newer (Bambiniotis & Collins) have "ο/η" or "m/f" or similar. — Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 18:09, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

m or f. I think "common" does not clarify by itself that this is not for neuter. Reader must search wiktionary explains. Also there are nouns and adjectives (the invariant ones), which are "trully" common to all three genders. --Xoristzatziki (talk) 06:55, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

m or f for the above mentioned reasons and because it's very clear; it does not need any further explanations. --flyax (talk) 10:07, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

m or f. It is clear and one does not need to know what c means. Dimboukas (talk) 17:55, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I think we have enough "m or f" to take that as the answer - I tackle the changes. But the category for common gender nouns can continue. — Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 18:09, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I just changed the entry έφηβος and it does no longer belong to the category. Can we fix that or should I add the category manually? --flyax (talk) 20:20, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

No need to add the Cat - changes to el-noun will achieve that. — Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 04:25, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

P.S. for Greek editors: Template {{el-l}} has been modified to display "m or f" if c is used. — Saltmarsh^{απάντηση} 06:39, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Polytonic forms

Polytonic forms should exist as nouns or as forms? (ex. ἐρωμένος) --Xoristzatziki (talk) 07:34, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Invariable recategorised as Indeclinable

To follow current practice this template has been changed so that invariable nouns are recategorised as indeclinable and moved to Category:Greek indeclinable nouns. The use of "inv" in parameter#2 will continue to work, but users are encouraged to use "ind". — Saltmarsh. 12:47, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

Singular

@Saltmarsh, the singulars m-s, f-s and n-s are missing. They are not very frequent, but they do exist for the few Category:Greek singularia tantum. Would it be possible to add them? (I have asked at the Module_talk:gender_and_number#singular because I did not see them there).
PS. And {{el-noun-proper}} is identical to this template: But I cannot make the plurals be shown (e.g. Ιανουάριος). The only difference between the two nouns, is that proper nouns always begin with capital letter. (But there are some capital-letter-words which are not proper nouns). The existance of plural is irrelevant. There are very very few nouns which never have a plural. e.g. all names, surnames, place names, abstracts and most of the uncountables do have a plural. Thanks sarri.greek (talk) 03:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek I don't think we need m-s, &c — cannot we use "uncountable"? Or if we must have "Singularia tantum" I think having (say) "ST" in addition to "unc" would be easier. — Saltmarsh. 05:59, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

@Saltmarsh never mind, but I cannot understand why the varieties m-s, f-s, n-s are omitted at the Module. Do not worry about the Sing.Tantum category: it is added manually (they are too few). «Uncountable» for greek, is just a descriptive characteristic, like «collective» or other epithets for nouns. It does not imply a lack of plural. If it is too much trouble, no problem, I will add it manually. sarri.greek (talk) 06:05, 4 February 2020 (UTC)