Talk:Ronja

Etymology of Ronja

This interesting etymology was added by an anonymous user:

Many people think that this name has been invented by Swedish author Astrid Lindgren for her book "Ronia, The Robber's Daughter". This is not true. Even though Lindgren thought she invented the name it had been used in the book "The Candlesticks and the Cross" by Ruth Freeman Solomon long before the release of Lindgren's book. The name Ronja is a Russian short form of the name Veronica and therefore means "bringing victory". Ronia is also a Hebrew name meaning "god's song".

An obvious name like "Ronja", rhyming with Sonja, can be invented by many persons similtaneously. Ruth Freeman Solomon's Ronya and Hebrew Ronia are strictly speaking different names. They have never been popular in English. This article deals with the Scandinavian and German name Ronja; it was very rare, until it became common in 1981. I have added the Russian pet name to the etymology. It has been recorded for 12 male names and 6 female names, there is no reason to single out Veronika..

This name is a bit like Wendy. J.M.Barrie explained how he invented it, but the explanation was so silly that parents wanted to find a more refined etymology for it. --Makaokalani 12:29, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

This name can absolutely not be compared to the name Wendy which was hardly ever used before J.M. Barrie invented it except for in very rare cases as a nickname for Gwendolyn. The name Ronja was used before Lindgren invented it even though it was spelled differently, but it was used with the same pronunciation and in its full form. The fact that Astrid Lindgren thought she invented it and the fact that it became popular in the 1980s doesn't change its meaning at all. You could say that Lindgren made the name popular but not that she invented it or that it doesn't have a meaning.

The Hebrew Ronia is not a different name as it has the same pronunciation and Ronja is just another way of spelling it. If you check popularity lists you will actually notice that the name Roni is one of the most popular girls names in Israel and Ronia/Roniya is a well known name in Israel as well. Just because it hadn't been used in Europe before it doesn't mean that it didn't exist elsewhere. Let's say we take a well known Hebrew name (popular in Israel) like Shira. It is not really common in Europe. So if I was the author of a book and knew a lake or river or something named Blablashirablabla (stupid example, I know) and take the name Shira out of it and claim that I invented it (because I never heard of it and neither did anybody else) and use it in a popular book for the main character (after which the name Shira becomes really popular) does it mean it doesn't have a meaning ? No. Even though it became popular through that book and even though nobody knew it before it was "invented" it doesn't change the fact that it existed before in another country and in another culture.

As for Ruth Freeman Solomon's Ronya how is that a different name ? It is pronounced exactly the same. You can also spell Sonja as Sonya or Sonia or even Soniya if you wish it doesn't take away its meaning. It doesn't matter that both Ronia and Ronya were never popular in an English speaking country. Ronja has also never been popular in an English speaking country. The only reason why the spelling Ronja is used in Scandinavia is because it reflects its pronunciation. I speak several languages and in German you pronounce Ronja as Ron-ya whether in English you'd pronounce Ronja as Ron-dsha (because of the j) so you need to change the spelling to Ronia or Ronya in order to get it pronounced like Ron-ya.

This isn't just an invented name. Believe me I wouldn't mind if it was but it just isn't. It has been used in several cultures with the same pronunciation.— This unsigned comment was added by 82.83.105.149 (talk) at 11:26, 9 August 2008.

You have a vision of given names as something permanent, with just one correct meaning. But names are like words, they may mean different things in different languages. It's not enough that they sound similar. There must be evidence how and when and in which form they entered the language. The Russian Роня and the Hebrew name ( which I cannot spell) have separate origins too. What's the point of arguing who invented this sound first, and which one of the meanings is "right"? They all are. And the lake Juronjaure does have a meaning; I have added it.

And, yes, if those little Shiras were named after the heroine of your book, their names would derive from the Blablashirablabla Lake! But the catch is, this rarely happens. Most inventions by writers and parents go unnoticed. Ronja and Wendy are rare exceptions.

You sound well informed, and you know many languages. Why don't you join the Wiktionary? We need people like you.:-)--Makaokalani 14:10, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't want to be rude, but are you serious ? So when I take the name Ana from Anaheim (city in California) and say it means "Ana's home" which then means "grace, favour" and "home" can I list it as my own invention and say "Ana derives from the name of the city Anaheim in California which translates as "grace, home" ? I understand that this is a stupid example as the city of Anaheim was probably named after a person but you get the idea. It is like finding a lake named Granelizabethon or something, taking Elizabeth out of it, claiming you invented it and saying it means "lake in Switzerland" which it doesn't. You can't do that. It has been proven that Ronia is a genuine Hebrew name which is used in Israel. You could say, the name Ronja is included in the name of a lake in Sweden as an interesting bit of trivia but that is not the meaning. There are thousands of lake/city/ names that include names but weren't directly named for a person for example the city Ankara includes the names Anka and Kara, but I can't just say that they mean "city in Turkey". Again not trying to be rude, just an opinion. Yes, I might post a bit more here I think I'd like that. Again not trying to be mean or rude, just another point of view I guess.

As somebody who was named Ronja in Europe years before this book was ever released, I personally get offended that people constantly claim a Swedish author invented the name. She did not. It existed long before the book ever came out. The book made the name popular not invent it.

As a russian I can also add that Ronja was NEVER a short form for Veronica.