Talk:tỉ

tỷ and tỉ are not synonyms, they are two different ways to spell the same word, much like color and colour in English. — hippietrail (talk) 13:05, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Currently there is no separation between North, Hue or South spelling in Wiktionary, so describing them as alternative spellings might confuse readers who don't know details about different dialects of Vietnamese language. Monni95 (talk) 21:14, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Then it would be better to label such variants as North, Hue, or South as we would for British vs American English because describing them as synonyms had definitely confused this reader until doing some reading up on Vietnamese spelling recently. I read more about the position of the tone mark in diphthongs than about the "i" vs. "y" so I'm no expert. I'll mark both articles with the {{attention}} template. — hippietrail (talk) 13:26, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

It's something that needs a proper guideline and consensus so all articles will have consistent labeling. I'm all up to separate categorization for at least the three above mentioned main dialects, even though some might argue that there is two distinct dialects in Central Vietnam. Monni95 (talk) 15:52, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes labelling is the consisten way we do it for other languages like US vs UK English, PT vs BR Portuguese, etc where there are different spelling standards and even German where there are older and newer standards in the same countries but at different times. But from what I read these spellings weren't really standardized. My reading is only from Computational Linguistics and Natural Language Processing papers on Vietnamese word segmentation and such topics. But they didn't talk about regional variations or standards and didn't seem to have set names for the variants. As far as where to place the tone mark they compared an old system where the mark went as close as possible to the middle of the word against the new system based in linguistic principals where the mark goes on the main vowel rather than the glide vowel, except that if one vowel as another type of diacritic already then the tone mark goes on the same vowel. They said less about the variation between "i" and "y" and I got the impression it wasn't even correlated with the variation of tone mark placement. If there's not really a rhyme or reason for it then I would go with just plain "Alternative forms" but if there is something systematic I would definitely label them. I would not make them more complicated than they need to be but I would aim for as correct and informative as possible. If you like I can provide some statistics on how common each variant is on the Vietnamese Wikipedia. — hippietrail (talk) 05:56, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

My knowledge of Vietnamese language is basically just from what I have learnt from my colleagues... I work with several Asian musicians and their fan clubs. In my opinion it would be best to look up some official on-line source that clearly defines the regional variations in spelling and group them by whatever the consensus becomes here. The least we should group them by Northern, Hue (Central) and Southern dialects. Monni95 (talk) 13:53, 29 May 2013 (UTC)