Talk:tarkhan

References

From diff:

• Han-Woo Choi, A Study of the Ancient Turkic "TARQAN", Handong University
• Dimitri Theodoridis in: Lars M. Hoffmann, Anuscha Monchizadeh, Zwischen Polis, Provinz und Peripherie: Beiträge Zur Byzantinischen Geschichte und Kultur, Tarhānīyāt, Otto Harrassowitz, 2005, pp.378
• Leland Liu Rogers, The Golden Summary of Cinggis Qayan: Cinggis Qayan-u Altan Tobc, Otto Harrassowitz, 2009, p.80
• Universität Bonn. Seminar für Sprach- und Kulturwissenschaft Zentralasiens: Zentralasiatische Studien, Vol. 24-26, p.21
• Turkic Myth Glossary (Türk Söylence Sözlügü)
• Lars M. Hoffmann, Anuscha Monchizadeh, Zwischen Polis, Provinz und Peripherie: Beiträge Zur Byzantinischen Geschichte und Kultur, chapt: Tarhānīyāt, by Dimitri Theodoridis, Otto Harrassowitz, 2005, pp.378. Quote: "Es darf in diesem Zusammenhang nicht außer acht gelassen werden, dass britische Forscher die kühne Behauptung aufgestellt haben, wonach das Wort tarxan und der etruskische Personenname Tarquinus auf ein und dassselbe Etymon zurückzuführen wären." References: (see below)

1. H. Beveridge, The Mongol title tarkhan, in: Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society of Great Britain and Ireland (1917), p.834:

"And I do not suppose that there can be any doubt that the names Tarchon, Tarquin and Tarkhan are identical."

1. F. W. Thomas, Tarkhan and Tarquinus, in: Ebenda (1918), pp.122-123; and H. Beveridge, pp.314-316.

• William Cohn, Oriental Art, Band 1, vol. 1, 1948, p.53
• Wolfram Eberhard, China Und Seine Westlichen Nachbarn: Beitr. Zur Mittelalterl. U. Neueren Geschichte Zentralasiens, Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft, 1978, p.299
• András Róna-Tas, Hungarians and Europe in the Early Middle Ages: An Introduction to Early Hungarian History, Central European University Press, 1999, p.352
• Manfred Späth, Beiträge zur 4. Internationalen Konferenz über Altrussische Geschichte. Begunov, "Weisse Rus". In Kommission bei O. Harrasowitz, 1980, p.164
• B.S.O.S., X, 789; see also Kirgiz sozlugii, K. K. Yudahin, Turkish translation by A. Taymas, Ankara, 1945, vol. 1, p. 299a
• Türkiyat mecmuası, vol. 3, p. 215 ; W. Barthold, Orta Asya Türk tarihi, Istanbul, 1927, p.209

FYI, you can move these into the entry. The reason I originally listed some references here rather than in the main entry was because, at the time I did so, the decision had been made to exclude from the entry the information which the references pertained to. (But I felt the refs might still be useful, so I saved them here.) If these references pertain to claims the entry actually makes now, they can go straight in the entry. (Sorry for any confusion!) - -sche (discuss) 14:33, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

Noun section

Is this a better formulation?

• ...Turkic (i.e. Hunnic, Xiongnu, Khazar), Mongolic and Indo-European peoples (i.e. Scythian and Tokharian), especially in the medieval era, and prominent among the successors of the Mongol Empire.

--89.204.139.113 08:29, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Better. I'm not qualified to judge all the details, but at least you're not mixing together all the language families and labeling everything as Turkic, which is what prompted me to revert your previous edit. Chuck Entz (talk) 09:30, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Ok. I'll fix it. --89.204.155.231 11:00, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Etymology

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tarkhan

Would you like to review this etymology please? It mentions a lot of the languages you're familiar with (Armenian, Georgian, Russian) which is why I'm asking you. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:45, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

I removed almost all of the added content because it seemed rather dubious (Korean?) and connected to a WP dispute; see w:Tarkhan&action=history. If you can review/expand/correct the etymology, that'd be great. - -sche (discuss) 14:40, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

-sche's version is good. I added few finishing touches. --Vahag (talk) 15:37, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Citations

I removed the following citations from the entry because they are not good/illustrative uses of the word; the first also explicitly disclaims the sense it had been given as a citation of(!):

- -sche (discuss) 03:42, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

RFV discussion: May–July 2014

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tarkhan

RFV of all senses. A sense similar to the first sense is probably attested, but it may need to be condensed and/or broadened. The other senses are more dubious. The citation assigned to sense 3 directly disclaims that the word has that sense; all of the citations for senses 2 through 4 are easily read as referring to a single sense ("a person who happens to be exempt from taxes") and it is not distinct from sense 1, as far as I have seen. (Among the first few pages of Google Books hits is the Historical Dictionary of Kazakhstan, which specifically notes that one of the rights which came with the aristocratic title was exemption from taxation. In other words, "(holder of) a certain aristocratic title" and "person exempt from taxation" are not separate senses.) The etymology is also sprawling and dubious (even after Mr. Granger's cleanup of it), referring to Korean, Mongolic and Etruscan; see the talkpage for discussion of it. - -sche (discuss) 20:44, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

I created Citations:Tarkhan (which seems to be the most common spelling). The citations support the first sense and two new ones. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 00:44, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Great work! I imagine the lemma of the "noble title" sense should remain lowercase; many capitalized instances are probably just honorific (compare "King"). - -sche (discuss) 04:00, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Here’s what I gathered in my research: it was originally a title granted to exceptional warriors. Eventually it become an inherited title of lower nobility. The common characteristics to both types of tarkhan were that they were allowed to visit the king/khan/etc. without requesting permission and were exempt from taxes. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 04:13, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Closed. Cleaned up and untagged by nominator. — Ungoliant ^(falai) 17:37, 24 July 2014 (UTC)