Talk:wench

Is there someone to explain why this article has been categorized to be cleaned up?

Wench was formerly used to define a lively little girl.

Verb definition?

Now I am not sure of the definition of the verb 'wench,' but the definition currently up there is 'to wench.' Can someone fix this please?

Not really comfortable editing entries, and don't want to spoil somebody's joke, but surely the "Amy Houlston" definition is a joke or a flirt? Jensfiederer 21:05, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

RFV discussion: December 2018–January 2019

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wench

A black woman. The sole citation (a slave trader referring to a slave as "a tight, likely wench") could easily be one of the preceding senses, such as a woman in general, or a lively/sexy one. Equinox ◑ 01:11, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Century does have this, as sense 3c: " […] A colored woman of any age; a negress or mulattress, especially one in service. [Colloq., U.S.]" They offer no citations and it seems impossible and possibly useless to distinguish it from our sense 2 (Century's sense 3a). - -sche (discuss) 03:15, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Strike the last part; it seems I should not have been so sceptical. - -sche (discuss) 19:09, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

It would be the natural, although archaic, female counterpart of boy sense 6.  --Lambiam 09:01, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

In fact, I notice many old dictionaries have this, including Webster's, Worcester's, Robert Hunter's, and Ogilvie's, which could be evidence in favour of interpreting ambiguous citations as being this. That spurred me to look further, and I found Hannah Rosen, Terror in the Heart of Freedom (2009), which quotes a 2 March 1866 article "Sharp Wench" from the Appeal about "a colored girl [who] was fined ten dollars", where "the Provost allowed a guard to wait on the wench", following which Rosen writes: "It is telling that a term that meant female child would be used by white Americans in the nineteenth century for black women of all ages (much like "boy" was used for black men of all ages), and particularly a term that also had the combined implications of servitude and illicit sexual behavior."

It also seems to have been a sufficiently widely understood category that it was used in minstrel shows:

• 2014, Kirsten Pullen, Like a Natural Woman:

  So complete was this illusion, claims Lott, that many audience members, including Mark Twain's mother, believed they were seeing authentic, biologically black performers on New York stages. Of course, wench characters seem to especially test the bounds of authentic performance. [...] Extant photographs and engravings of wench performers do not always represent them as blacked up, [...] In antebellum minstrel shows, wench songs were most often sung about mulatto women rather than by them.

Perhaps most intriguing are old records which seem to refer to women suspected of being black/enslaved: "Nancy Basset, 28, likely wench, mulatto / Proved to be free. Certified free as per General Birch Certificate. / Patience Jackson, 23, very likely wench, mulatto / Says she was born free Rhode Island. / Certified free as per General Birch Certificate." (Black Loyalists of Nova Scotia: Tracing the History of Tracadie Loyalists, 1776-1787, 2000)

- -sche (discuss) 09:39, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

...or perhaps they are using an odd sense of likely. - -sche (discuss) 02:31, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

Yes, I'd read that as sense 3, "having good potential" (i.e. worth buying); compare The Likely Lads. Equinox ◑ 02:43, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 20:13, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

RFV discussion: January–February 2020

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wench

The adjective sense, said to mean "(slang) attractive, good-looking". — SGconlaw (talk) 20:51, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

So far I have only managed to find one (on citations page). Kiwima (talk) 21:27, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, that’s one more than me! Hmmm, that quote doesn’t seem to support the “attractive, good-looking” sense. It appears to be the adjective form of sense 1 or 1.1 of the noun. Looks like the adjective sense should be transferred to the citations page for now. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:50, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

In the context it seems more like it has the sense of “maidservant” or “peasant girl”, no longer stunningly beautiful, clad in accordance with a lowly stature, unlikely to attract much attention. It is not hard to find comparable instances of “very girl-next-door” ([1],[2],[3]), which IMO do not make girl-next-door an adjective – even though we classify it as one.  --Lambiam 09:26, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

"wenchiest" has several citations, but not exactly the challenged meaning. DTLHS (talk) 20:18, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

I also note that @DTLHS has added some quotes with the word wenchiest, which would seem to support an adjective wenchy, rather than "wench" Kiwima (talk) 20:20, 16 January 2020 (UTC).

I wasn't paying attention. Moved. DTLHS (talk) 20:22, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

RFV-failed Kiwima (talk) 19:39, 17 February 2020 (UTC)