Template talk:alter

See also: Module talk:alternative forms

Couldn't we add a list of abbreviations? I've had to look up in other entries to find the code for Aeolic ("aio"), Epic ("epi"), etc. --Fsojic (talk) 15:50, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

They should all be found at Module:grc:Dialects. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 19:38, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Why?

Couldn't we just do:

• {{l|en|crawdad}}, {{l|en|crawfish}}
• {{l|hy|մուկ}}, {{l|hy|մուկը}} {{dialect|hy|տփ}}
• {{l|grc|παραγίνομαι}} {{dialect|grc|ion|post-Classical}}

where {{dialect}} would essentially do just the second part of {{alter}}? Why does linking and displaying dialects have to be in the same template? --WikiTiki89 17:32, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

@Fsojic, Atelaes --WikiTiki89 17:32, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

@Wikitiki89 It's slightly shorter this way; you only have to specify the language code once. Plus, if we're ever in a situation like that of Chinese, where "Chinese" exists alongside "Cantonese" and "Mandarin", we could modify this template so it redirects to the dialect page if it exists. Although, if you don't think it's worth the saved space, I can certainly understand it—there's often too much structure-for-structure's-sake here. —ObsequiousNewt (εἴρηκα|πεποίηκα) 17:16, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Minor change

Would anyone object to adding parentheses to the dialects? It looks slightly odd as it is, as if perhaps the dialect were another term in the list. —ObsequiousNewt (εἴρηκα|πεποίηκα) 17:16, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

@ObsequiousNewt: I've gone ahead and added parentheses if the language doesn't have transliteration, a n-dash if it does. That way, there won't be two parentheses next to each other. @Mihia also wanted this. — Eru·tuon 23:02, 26 January 2017 (UTC)

@Erutuon: Why not just put parentheses around all of the dialects? — ObſequiousNewt — Geſpꝛaͤch — Beÿtraͤge 02:12, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

@ObsequiousNewt: Because I think two parentheses next to each other is aesthetically undesirable: φίλημμι (phílēmmi) (Aeolic). — Eru·tuon 02:46, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

qualifier parameter

It would be more helpful if we had a |qN= parameter, instead of a non-standard blank |4= mechanism that we can't attribute specifically to a variant. --Victar (talk) 04:08, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

There used to be a series of |dial1=, |dial2=, ... parameters. Using a blank parameter is shorter, so we changed it. Using a |q1=, ... type parameter would be slightly misleading, since we use dialectal data modules to handle the content of the labels, rather than having it entirely free-form like {{qual}}. (Admittedly, "dialectal data" is a misleading name for the modules handling the labels: some of the labels have to do with sound changes or morphological variants instead of dialects.) So, using a blank parameter to separate terms and labels is odd, but more convenient than having to type out a parameter name for each label. That is our justification. — Eru·tuon 05:58, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

That change has dumbed this module far too much. For instance, I want to be able to do type:

{{alter|nrf|couôsîn|cousin|d1=jer|d2=gue}} and get couôsîn (Jèrriais), cousin (Guernésiais).

Or {{alter|nrf|couôsîn|cousin|q1=dialectical|q2=archaic}} for couôsîn (dialectical), cousin (archaic).

--Victar (talk) 13:49, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Well, that was not how the previous |dialn= parameters worked. They worked exactly like the current dialect parameters do: labeling every term in the template. That way, when a term belongs to two dialects, or a term has an additional sound change that we would like to note, we can put two labels after it. And when two or more terms belong to the same dialect or dialects, we can use a single set of labels for all. That frequently happens in Ancient Greek. See ἐγώ (egṓ) and ἡμεῖς (hēmeîs) for some examples. — Eru·tuon 17:54, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

OK, then what I'm arguing for us a new functionality, because I need to be able mark each entry, which I can't currently do. --Victar (talk) 18:35, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

For now you can do what we currently do: put each thing with a label on its own line. Propose new functionality if you want; people are more likely to respond at the Beer Parlour. — Eru·tuon 18:41, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

OK, will do. I'm also thinking about descendant trees, where we keep them to one line, marking each. --Victar (talk) 18:48, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

@Victar: What I would like to see before we remove the old parameter system is a set of examples showing the various current possibilities and their equivalents in the new parameter system. That will test whether the new system will work, allow editors to give a more informed opinion on it, and show editors how to use it. As of yet, the illustrations of the proposed change have been diffused over several pages and posts, and it's hard to get a picture of them.

But I think there is no opposition to adding the new parameters |aN= and |qN=. That can be done soon.

I wonder why so few have commented on this in the Beer Parlour post. Perhaps because the labeled alternative forms are used in so few languages. I don't know though. — Eru·tuon 20:07, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Romansch Dialects

I've been thinking of creating a module for the dialects of Romansch (Module:rm:Dialects). Any suggestions? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 13:23, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Entries lacking t=

@Erutuon, could you look into why entries with only |tr= and no |t= don't work? Please see 𐭪𐭫𐭲 (klt). Thanks! --Victar (talk) 16:08, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

@Victar: Huh? That entry has an awful lot in it. Where specifically is the problem? — Eru·tuon 21:32, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

@Erutuon: I was referring to the Alternative forms section, this being the {{alter}} talk page :p, but specifically, {{alter|pal|tr=-krt'|ts=-kirt, -gird||Book Pahlavi}} → [script needed] (-krt' /⁠-kirt, -gird⁠/), Book Pahlavi. --Victar (talk) 22:34, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

@Victar: Ahh, I see. Well, the module doesn't look for transliterations or transcriptions unless there's a term (see elseif args[2][i] then). I suppose I can make it check all the relevant parameters instead. Isn't there a weird Latin-alphabet representation of Book Pahlavi that you can use though? — Eru·tuon 23:17, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

@Erutuon: We're phasing out using Latin characters for all MP forms. --Victar (talk) 23:49, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

null |2=

@Erutuon, could you make this module work so you can have null |2= in cases here you only have |tr= or |ts=? --{{victar|talk}} 05:39, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

@Victar: Can you add some examples that you have in mind to Module:alternative forms/sandbox/documentation so that I can test this? — Eru·tuon 21:59, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

@Erutuon: Basically any Book Pahlavi entry, like {{alter|pal|tr=dʾl|ts=dār}}. --{{victar|talk}} 08:01, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

@Victar: Added it. Unfortunately I changed a bit in the sandbox that might break things so am dithering about merging the changes. — Eru·tuon 08:40, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm working on a list of all {{alter}} templates to figure out if my changes will cause errors and make any necessary edits before updating Module:alternative forms. — Eru·tuon 19:08, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

There should be no problems, so changes merged. — Eru·tuon 19:53, 21 March 2019 (UTC)