Last modified on 28 February 2015, at 18:44

User talk:Dan Polansky


Making simplified Chinese soft-redirect to traditional ChineseEdit

Hi Dan. You have a vote running [1] but the outcome of it will be of no importance since it has already been implemented in many entries [2]. I will therefore suggest that you close the vote. Kinamand (talk) 07:53, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

As for Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2014-12/Making simplified Chinese soft-redirect to traditional Chinese, I have no intention to prematurely close the vote. It is possible to undo non-consensual changes made before and during the vote if the vote fails. If you support the proposal of the vote, you can vote support now to bolster the proposal. --Dan Polansky (talk) 19:55, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
As for "There is no point for a vote when no Chinese-language editor opposes the proposal. The vote is a means for a bunch of utter standers-by to dictate what chores others should do." diff: I do not subscribe to the thesis that the only editors who can have a say about Chinese-language entries are those who contribute to them. And I do not see anyone in the vote "dictating" others to do something, chores or otherwise; the opposers in the vote require that status quo is not changed, and therefore that no action is taken in certain regards. --Dan Polansky (talk) 20:02, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the answer. I have now cast my vote. Kinamand (talk) 09:23, 8 January 2015 (UTC)


Sorry fot the revert (Wiktionary:Votes/2014-09/Renaming rhyme pages). I wasn't aware of it. I don't know what happened. Lmaltier (talk) 20:03, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the info. When I saw it, I thought it was just an unintentional mistake, so no hard feelings. --Dan Polansky (talk) 17:54, 9 January 2015 (UTC)


Do you know how to code a German noun as uncountable? I'm at sea. Purplebackpack89 21:29, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Category:German uncountable nouns has examples, e.g. Schnee. However, I don't like how every sense in Schnee is marked uncountable on every definition line; that should not be done, IMHO, and it was not there in this revision, which had this:


# {{weather|lang=de}} [[snow]]

--Dan Polansky (talk) 09:11, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

OK. It is different for a proper noun? TBH, the German proper noun template should make ALL German proper nouns uncountable. The word I'm working on is Sezessionskrieg. It should not have a genetive or plural; I believe its gender to be male because the root word Krieg is also male. Purplebackpack89 15:55, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
For gender, you can check Duden, which I added to Sezessionskrieg. Proper nouns do have genitives. --Dan Polansky (talk) 15:59, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
I guess I don't know what a genitive is. What's a genitive? Purplebackpack89 16:00, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
W:Genitive case#German. Duden shows genitive ("Genitiv"). google books:"Sezessionskrieges" and google books:"Sezessionskriegs" shows examples of use of the two possible genitives. --Dan Polansky (talk) 16:09, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
I have updated the entry; I hope you all don't mind. According to the Duden and German Wiktionary, it also means any war of secession and is countable in that form. —JohnC5 (Talk | contribs) 01:28, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
Cool beans. Purplebackpack89 05:50, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Czech iteratives or frequentativesEdit

I have entered stávat tentatively as "iterative". User:Diligent also mentioned the term "frequentative" in connection with "iterative", on my talk page. fr:stávat says "Itératif ou duratif de stát"; en.wikt durative says "(linguistics) Of or pertaining to the aspect of a verb that expresses continuing action; continuative"; thus, continuative is another candidate term. de:stávat says "iteratives Verb".

Another use of "stávat" other than iterative ("to se stává") is the "used to" use, meaning "it did, but does not more". "stával tam dům" => it does not stand there any more. It may be that past forms of iteratives are generally used as used-to-forms when in the past form.

Some Czech sources use the Czech word iterativum:

  • "Ale ne kazdé sloveso -iti má k sobě iterativum -ívati, ..." -- Jan Gebauer, 1896
  • "Sloveso nosit jako iterativum ke slovesu nést (a dokonavému zanést) je v tomto pojetí jiné sloveso (má jiny s-glyf) nez členité sloveso nosit, ..." -- Jarmila Panevová, ‎Eva Benešová, 1971
  • "Když tedy se užívá termínu iterativum v jazycích, které de facto nemají príznaková iterativa, nevadí to tak velice jako u nás, kde tuto kategorii máme, ale termínu pro ni vhodného uzíváme pro slovesa zcela jiná, pro jisty morfologicky druh ..." -- František Kopečný, 1962

One feature of "stávat" is that both the iterative and the base form "stát" are imperfective. Iteratives can probably be also formed from perfectives, so "kupovat" is probably also an iterative, while "koupit" is perfective.

Similar cases:

  • být --> bývat
  • mít --> mívat
  • stát --> stávat
  • brát --> brávat
  • dělat --> dělávat
  • spát --> spávat
  • znát --> znávat: attested in the form "znával"
  • bydlet or bydlit --> bydlívat
  • snít --> snívat
  • koupit --> kupovat: but koupit is perfective
  • mluvit --> mluvívat

--Dan Polansky (talk) 10:35, 17 January 2015 (UTC)


Why did you undo my edit here? Fool can mean "jester", and the synonyms for "fool" associated with that definition are different than the ones for the definition that applies to low mental capacity. Purplebackpack89 02:12, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Each Wikisaurus page is for a sense or a synonym cluster, not for a word. The word chosen to represent the sense is an accident. The cluster for jester can be hosted on Wikisaurus:jester; it does not need to occupy the same page as Wikisaurus:fool. --Dan Polansky (talk) 18:26, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Náprava WikislovníkaEdit


založil jsem iniciativu k nápravě českého Wikislovníka. Uvědomil jsem si, že je třeba to změnit. Správci tam nerespektují pravidla a pronásledují nepohodlné editory. To na wikiprojekt nepatří. Pokud budeš mít chuť, jsi vítán. Každá ruka dobrá.Juandev (talk) 08:34, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Let's draft a vote for CFI translation criteriaEdit

In order to avoid the occasional misrepresentation of bizarre foreign terms that require multi-word English translations, I think we should draft a vote that would specify limitations on when arguably SOP terms should be allowed for the purpose of collecting targets for multiple foreign single-word translations. I agree with the standards you have generally suggested in discussions. bd2412 T 13:48, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

I am thinking of something like this:
A translation target is an English multi-word term that is useful for hosting translations. Some attested non-idiomatic translation targets should be included despite being non-idiomatic and some excluded, but there is no agreement on precise, all-encompassing rules for deciding which are which. Therefore, the following is tentative. A translation that is a closed compound such as German Autoschlüssel should not support inclusion of an English term as a translation target, in this case "car key". By contrast, a single-word non-compound such as German Anglistik should be considered to support inclusion of its most usually used English translation, in this case English studies. The existence of a rare English term such as Anglistics should not detract from its synonym such as English studies being included as a translation target. Diminutives should not support inclusion of an English term as a translation target. Sentence-like terms such as xłp̓x̣ʷłtłpłłskʷc̓ ("he had had in his possession a bunchberry plant") should not support a term as a translation terget. How many qualifying translations are needed to justify the inclusion of a translation target is left undecided.
I want to emphasize that I do not feel confident about drafting a rigid code. I want the discussion to be rather open, and people encouraged to think about what is inclusion-worthy and why. I was also thinking about an entirely minimalist version, but that would not meet your interest in having closed compounds explicitly discarded:
A translation target is an English multi-word term that is useful for hosting translations. Some attested non-idiomatic translation targets should be included despite being non-idiomatic and some excluded, but there is no agreement on precise, all-encompassing rules for deciding which are which.
--Dan Polansky (talk) 14:32, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
I would rather have some narrow language permitting the inclusion of arguably non-idiomatic terms as translation targets than no language at all, and routine CFI-based arguments for the exclusion of such terms. bd2412 T 18:44, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
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