Module talk:zh/data/dial-syn/熱
Latest comment: 4 years ago by Justinrleung in topic 燙
燙
edit@The dog2, Justinrleung 漢語方言詞彙 has separate entries for 熱 and 燙. Should we remove 燙? RcAlex36 (talk) 18:18, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @RcAlex36: Yup. They're different in Mandarin. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 18:21, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: In colloquial usage they may be synonyms though (e.g. 額頭好燙，一定發燒了 in 國語辭典). RcAlex36 (talk) 18:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @RcAlex36, Justinrleung: I think it should stay because it means "hot", at least in standard Mandarin as spoken in China. I'm not sure about Taiwan, and we don't really use this in Singapore. But as I indicated in the notes, it is only used to describe objects. You cannot use it to describe the weather. The dog2 (talk) 18:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @RcAlex36, The dog2: They're near-synonyms, I think. 燙 seems to be hotter than 熱, and 燙 is restricted to touch. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 18:27, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @RcAlex36, Justinrleung: It's true that there are subtle difference in the way they are used. As I mentioned, you can say "小心，水很燙。" to warn someone that the water is hot, but if you're asking a waiter to bring you hot water, you would ask for 熱水 and not 燙水. The dog2 (talk) 18:33, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @RcAlex36, The dog2: The distinction is kind of blurry, but 漢語方言詞彙 makes it pretty clear like this (using Beijing, Guangzhou, Meixian and Xiamen as examples):
- 燙: 燙 (Beijing, Xiamen), 滾 (Guangzhou, Meixian), 焫 (Guangzhou)
- 熱: 熱 (Beijing, Xiamen, Guangzhou), 㷫 (Guangzhou), 燒 (Meixian, Xiamen)
- In terms of intensity, 熱/㷫 are more mild than 焫/滾 in Cantonese. There's also a sense of the possibility of injuring with the heat of 焫/滾. In terms of whether it can be used for the weather, 熱/㷫 can be used, but 焫/滾 can't (usually). These are pretty clear indications that it'd be best to split. Also, 漢語方言詞彙 makes the distinction, so it'd be best to make that distinction. Now, for adjectives like this, we probably should be looking at predicative uses (水很燙) rather than attributive uses (熱水/開水), which are more restrictive. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 18:41, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @RcAlex36, The dog2: The distinction is kind of blurry, but 漢語方言詞彙 makes it pretty clear like this (using Beijing, Guangzhou, Meixian and Xiamen as examples):
- @RcAlex36, Justinrleung: It's true that there are subtle difference in the way they are used. As I mentioned, you can say "小心，水很燙。" to warn someone that the water is hot, but if you're asking a waiter to bring you hot water, you would ask for 熱水 and not 燙水. The dog2 (talk) 18:33, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @RcAlex36, The dog2: They're near-synonyms, I think. 燙 seems to be hotter than 熱, and 燙 is restricted to touch. — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 18:27, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @RcAlex36, Justinrleung: I think it should stay because it means "hot", at least in standard Mandarin as spoken in China. I'm not sure about Taiwan, and we don't really use this in Singapore. But as I indicated in the notes, it is only used to describe objects. You cannot use it to describe the weather. The dog2 (talk) 18:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @Justinrleung: In colloquial usage they may be synonyms though (e.g. 額頭好燙，一定發燒了 in 國語辭典). RcAlex36 (talk) 18:23, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
@Justinrleung: How do you want to split it then? One for objects and one for the weather? And speaking of 滾 in Cantonese, isn't it only used to describe water? My understanding is that it indicates that the water is boiling. The dog2 (talk) 18:49, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
- @The dog2: 滾 is usually used for liquids, but also for really hot objects that are figuratively boiling hot, like a head with fever. The split would be the based on both intensity (燙 more hot than 熱) and domain of usage (熱 used for weather, people and certain objects, 燙 used for touching an object). — justin(r)leung { (t...) | c=› } 19:25, 20 August 2020 (UTC)