Module talk:zh/data/dial-syn/輪子

車X

@Mar vin kaiser, Justinrleung I'm not sure if we should be including words in the form of 車X (e.g. 車輪, 車軲轆). What do you think? RcAlex36 (talk) 10:11, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

@RcAlex36: The thing for me is that several dialects interchange these terms, wherein the word without 車 seems to not be used. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 10:14, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: 汉语方言词汇 does not record words in the form of 車X, except for Jian'ou〔车〕轮. RcAlex36 (talk) 10:15, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: They are interchangeable because wheels are mostly found on vehicles. RcAlex36 (talk) 10:18, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

@RcAlex36: In any case, if we need to distinguish terms with 車 and those without 車, all the terms with 車 can be labelled as "car wheel?". I feel like it's too interchangeable and consulting different sources, I'm just not sure if certain dialects really use the terms without 車. But even if it's not the case, I think users will benefit from it being in the same synonym chart. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 10:20, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

@RcAlex36, Mar vin kaiser: One way to do it is to restrict this module to "car wheel". Then whatever terms here would be synonymous in this restricted semantic domain. Another way is to label the car ones with "car" or something, as Marvin has suggested. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 20:04, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

@Justinrleung, Mar vin kaiser: I think we can have separate modules for 輪子 and 車輪. It seems to me they are for the most part treated separately in 現代漢語方言大詞典, with 輪子 defined as 車輪或機械上能旋轉的圓形部件, and 車輪 defined as 車的輪子. We can restrict the current module for 車輪或機械上能旋轉的圓形部件 (i.e. "wheel"), and create a separate module for 車輪 ("car wheel"). I also discovered that the "wheel" sense for 輪子 is not recorded in 忻州方言詞典, and in 萬榮方言詞典 輪子 is defined as "一般只指機動汽車上能轉動的圓形的部件" while 軲轆 is "指自行車和大車的輪子". If we restrict this module to "car wheel", then many terms that are true synonyms of 輪子 will have to be taken out. RcAlex36 (talk) 04:34, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@RcAlex36: Support if it's doable. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 04:37, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@Justinrleung, Mar vin kaiser: Also, in 南京方言詞典, 輪盤=車輪子=car wheel. RcAlex36 (talk) 04:45, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

in 萍鄉方言詞典, 輪盤 is defined as 車輪. RcAlex36 (talk) 04:49, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@RcAlex36: So do you mean, we maintains words like 輪盤 in the 輪子 module? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 06:09, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: Yes, except for Nanjing and Pingxiang, until we can find other sources that say 輪盤 can mean wheels in general in those lects. RcAlex36 (talk) 06:13, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: What do you think of my proposal? RcAlex36 (talk) 10:41, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@RcAlex36: To me, it's just that as you said, if we split the two, we have to remove many terms that are true synonyms of 輪子. If that's the case, then users might miss that, since it would be missing in the dialectal chart for 輪子. Meanwhile, if we keep it together, then at the very least, it's clear to users that a specific dialect uses this word for it, despite it being defined specifically for "car" in the 方言詞典 (which maybe they defined it wrong, but we can't verify). @Justinrleung, what do you think of this specific issue? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 10:55, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: By true synonyms of 輪子 I mean words like Guangzhou 轆, Xiamen 輦 and Shanghai 輪盤, which do not refer to only car wheels but wheels in general. What I have proposed is restricting this module to words for wheels in general, similar to the table we have in 汉语方言词汇. We can start a Module:zh/data/dial-syn/車輪 for words that specifically refer to car wheels. RcAlex36 (talk) 11:18, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@RcAlex36: Oh ok, I misunderstood what you meant. But if that's the case, for example, for the Nanjing dialect, "輪盤" would be placed under "車輪" and it won't have a word under "輪子", right? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 14:22, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: Yes, but if we have materials indicating 輪盤 in Nanjing is not limited to car wheels, then we can also put it under 輪子. RcAlex36 (talk) 14:25, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@RcAlex36: Yeah so that's what I meant when I said users would miss the word "輪盤" in the Nanjing dialect if we split the two. I honestly feel like "輪盤" is really a generic wheel, but maybe the dictionary defined it too specifically, but that's just my intelligent guess. Regardless, I just think if we keep both together, at least for now, then users who would look at the 輪子 chart would at least see an item for the Nanjing dialect, and any other dialect that has missing info. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 14:56, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: Unless you don't take the dictionary seriously, I would think 輪盤 just means 車輪 in Nanjing. Users should not be misled by our own assumptions of how we think certain words should work. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 15:44, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: You can ignore the opinion I shared lol, all what I meant was that I think keeping 輪子 and 車輪 together could be more useful for users than if kept separate. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 22:47, 28 March 2022 (UTC)