128.192.98.201

Pronunciation

On Wiktionary, we're using /ɔɹ/ rather than /ɔ˞/, to be phonemic. I know it's somewhat inconsistent, since we use /ɚ/, but it's our current convention. If you want to make the case that /ɔ˞/ is phonemic in US English, then the Tea Room is the discussion forum to do that. --EncycloPetey 20:57, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Ah, sorry. I didn't know there was a particular convention in place. I've just noticed a lot of inconsistencies and a lot of missing data, or frankly, incorrect data on GenAm English. I'll keep that in mind, although I must be completely honest, [ɔ] doesn't exist in my idiolect, as I grew up in an area affected by the Caught-Cot merger. Rhoticy for that vowel basically sounds like [oɹ] to me. 128.192.98.201 21:01, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

One way to handle some of the issues is to include both a broadly phonemic and narrowly phonetic transcription, as I've done with your edit at (deprecated template usage) will. We try to have a broadly phonemic (separately for the UK and US) pronunciation, though sometimes more than one is listed. When there isa more precise way of phonetically describing the sound, that ca be added as well but in square brackets. --EncycloPetey 21:04, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Another note: For the Rhymes pages, we have to use the right-side up /r/ unless (and until) someone renames all the pages, and there are a lot of them. These predate the decision to use the inverted form for English. --EncycloPetey 21:06, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I was just about to ask about that... Hmm. So I must leave all the [r] mistakes alone or correct ALL of them? Haha... 128.192.98.201 21:08, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Only in the links to the Rhymes pages. :)

Incidentally, vowel length is not phonemic in US English, so that usually gets removed when it's present in a US-specific pronunciation. You may see me make other edits, but some of them involve more complicated decisions that you don't need to be burdened with, such as when to indent subitems or not. --EncycloPetey 21:10, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree that vowel length is not phonemic in US English :) So, just to double check, I can correct the [r] IPA entries as long as it is not a link to a Rhymes page? Also, for the "or" sound, our convention is to use [ɔɹ] rather than [ɔ˞], but [ɚ] is fine?

Yes. There is some disagreement, however, as to whether /ɝ/ should be used in US English; it shows up occasionally and I use it when my sources do. However, our UK phoneticists say that it is /əː/ in the UK and never /ɜː/. --EncycloPetey 21:29, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. I'm unsure whether /ɝ/ is appropriate or not for GAE, but I wanted to let you know that I just made an account. So, please use this account's talk page from now on :) I wanted to know also... just how many Rhymes pages are there that use the rightside-up /r/? Surely if enough people worked on it, it could be corrected? ThePhonetician 22:04, 14 June 2010 (UTC)