Last modified on 6 August 2013, at 22:25

Template talk:form of

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Extra return charEdit

This template seems to be introcuding an extra return char that I can't eliminate. DAVilla 17:38, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm... appears magically fixed now... maybe delay in updating. DAVilla 17:57, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Capital and punctuationEdit

Please provide some parameters such that one can make the template do no capitalization and amot the dot at the end. Sometimes one wants to use it in a sentence context. E.g. see listen#Danish. H. (talk) 13:40, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

That's actually already been done for this template (use {{form of|form-name|[[word]]|nocap=1|nodot=1}}), though not for all the form-of templates. —RuakhTALK 15:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Use with non-roman scriptsEdit

Similar to the recent changes to {{t}}, {{form of}} should probably accept an “sc” and a “tr” parameter. Thoughts? Rod (A. Smith) 19:24, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. It's been very annoying having to add <span class="use-with-mention> et al manually in order to use {{he-link}}. (Though on the other hand, this might not actually accomplish anything for Hebrew, since with Hebrew the spelling of the link-text is not the same as the spelling of the target page. Maybe we need a separate {{he-form of}}.) —RuakhTALK 20:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I had created {{kor-form of}} in a poor attempt to solve similar problems for non-lemma Korean entries, but since {{t}} seems to address non-roman script translations well with the parameters “sc”, “tr”, and “alt”, I expect {{form of}} can do the same. Rod (A. Smith) 21:15, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I was totally unaware of the {{{alt}}} parameter. Taken together, those three parameters would solve everything! —RuakhTALK 21:42, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

New versionEdit

I intend to start a new version of this at (edited again:) {{stylized mention}} which is to be called by all form-of templates. {{form of}} would remain for pages that call it directly. The split is necessary to make determinations of emerging patterns under the latter use, which cannot currently be distinguished from indirect use in Whatlinkshere. At the same time that these changes are made, I expect to implement other standardizations, possibly including some sweeping and radical changes. See WT:RFDO#Finnish categories gone wild. DAVilla 11:54, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for taking this on, DAVilla. Since you mentioned standardizations, please keep in mind the need for parameters “sc”, “alt”, and “tr”, as noted above. Rod (A. Smith) 17:23, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Done, although untested. In what languages is alt necessary? DAVilla 22:05, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Hebrew, Latin, and perhaps Greek entries will use “alt”. Rod (A. Smith) 22:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
To add to what Rod has said: in Hebrew, vowels and certain other features are only hinted at by the spelling; to fully indicate them, there exist special diacritics that are used in children's books, poetry, prayer-books, and dictionaries. So, we use the normal spelling for the page name, but include the vowels in the displayed text. Similarly, in Latin, the spelling doesn't distinguish between long and short vowels, so our page names don't; but in displayed text, we indicate the long vowels with macrons. And by "we" I don't mean any group that includes myself, since I don't actually speak Latin. —RuakhTALK 23:58, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

The nocap and nodot parameters need to be addedEdit

Can someone make the same changes I made to the {{third-person singular of}} template to this template please? Thanks in advance.  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 17:43, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

This template has supported those parameters for a while now; it just needs to be documented. :-) —RuakhTALK 19:42, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Strange. It doesn’t seem to have been passed on to {{past of}}, which transcludes this tempate.  (u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 21:06, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

plain old "Form of"Edit

Can we change

{{#if:{{{nocap|}}}|{{{1}}}|{{ucfirst:{{{1}}}}}}}

to

{{#if:{{{nocap|}}}|{{{1|form}}}|{{ucfirst:{{{1|Form}}}}}}}

?—msh210 22:24, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. If no one objects within a few days, I'll do it. (This template is transcluded up the wazoo, so I don't want to make a change without waiting for people to point out problems.) —RuakhTALK 02:31, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, I forgot about this, and now DAVilla's mooted it with an entirely different set of changes. —RuakhTALK 01:38, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

there's no "of" in "form of"Edit

Whatever recent changes were made, it doesn't look right in practice - the text at exploitent now says "Third-person plural present subjunctive exploiter.", with no "of" before "exploiter" - please fix this. --Keene 14:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks. —RuakhTALK 01:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

section linksEdit

It was only generating section links if sc was specified (someone left out the other case). Fixed. (This does mean it generates a lot of #English links that aren't really needed.) Robert Ullmann 14:05, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Gloss and transliterationEdit

For foreign scripts, wouldn't it be good to add the gloss and "tr=" parameters, to match the behaviour of {{term}}? Examples include батярка (f. of батяр) and бацяр (alt. spelling of батяр). —Michael Z. 02:04, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

{{{tr}}} is supported. —RuakhTALK 11:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Oops—I confused this with {{plural of}}. Thanks. —Michael Z. 19:40, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
  • I echo the request for meaning gloss, which is necessary when an inflected form resolves to several same-spelled lemmas. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 15:25, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Categorization of templatesEdit

Currently, language-specific templates which employ this template all get placed in Category:Form of templates. Since the template already accepts the lang= parameter, it will be fairly easy to refine the categorization where this parameter is specified so that the templates get categorised into a language-specific form-of templates category. __meco 13:36, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Suppressed red linkEdit

It seems that if the target term's entry doesn't exist, this template puts the term in bold. Shouldn't it create a normal red link instead, to allow the reader to click through and search or start the entry? Michael Z. 2010-01-22 21:53 z

I think the {{#ifexist|…}} predicate is being used as a poor man's {{isValidPageName|…}}, to avoid re-linkifying the parameter if it's already a link (as used to be standard practice). —RuakhTALK 04:03, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Can we use isValidPageName instead? Right now, not only is there no link, but {{{3}}} doesn't work, either! (The latter problem can be fixed by changing {{#ifexist:{{{2}}}|[[{{{2}}}#{{{lang|English}}}|{{{3|{{{2}}}}}}]]|{{{2}}}}} to {{#ifexist:{{{2}}}|[[{{{2}}}#{{{lang|English}}}|{{{3|{{{2}}}}}}]]|{{{3|{{{2}}}}}}}}, but why not use isValidPageName?)​—msh210 16:57, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
By all means, be my guest. (To clarify: I was only trying to explain why it might be this way, not advocating leaving it this way.) —RuakhTALK 01:17, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Because this is so very widely transcluded and I'm no expert when it comes to syntax, I just want to confirm the change here before effecting it. I'll be changing {{#ifexist:{{{2}}}|[[{{{2}}}#{{{lang|English}}}|{{{3|{{{2}}}}}}]]|{{{2}}}}} to {{#if:{{isValidPageName|{{{2}}}}}|[[{{{2}}}#{{language|{{{lang|en}}}}}|{{{3|{{{2}}}}}}]]|{{{2}}}}}, is that right? (The change from language name to language code is merely to match the earlier part of the template, where language code is used. One of the two should be switched, and this one is less essential, merely linking to a section (and hence to the top of the page if there's an error), than the earlier, which determines, via {{Xyzy}}, a choice of script.)​—msh210 15:24, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
Effected.​—msh210 (talk) 18:36, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
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Hi there. You edit of this template on 15th July has made it do strange things to some Italian verb form entries. See dispregiamo as an example. SemperBlotto 21:46, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Bother. I suppose I should revert my change to the template, but I still think change is, for the most part, for the better. But then those Italian (and perhaps other) entries will need to be fixed. Do you have any idea how many of those there might be? (I suppose I could try cajoling someone who knows how to analyze the dumps to find a list of all entries that have foo#bar as the second parameter in that template, and then go about fixing them all.)​—msh210 16:18, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
I should think there are tens of thousands of them. I thought that French ones had the same format, but Keenebot (or whoever) didn't use #French. I have stopped using #Italian in any new ones, but that doesn't solve the problem! SemperBlotto 18:57, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
The problem seems to be foo#Italian|foo without [[]]. I can't tell you why that is, though. The optimal system seems to be {{form of|first-person singular (blah blah)|foo|lang=Italian}} as the lang=Italian only works when [[foo]] is not wikilinked. lang=it doesn't work, it produces [[foo#it|foo]]. In som cases you'd need {{count page}} as well. Mglovesfun (talk) 10:40, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Do you know where the dumps are nowadays? —RuakhTALK 11:36, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
http://dumps.wikimedia.org.​—msh210 16:09, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. We used to have nightly dumps (something Robert created on a server run by Amgine), but I guess we don't anymore. Anyway, we finally got a dump the other day, so I just now generated a list of the 241 pages with this issue … and when I looked at the first entry on that list, [[domesticate]], I found that NadandoBot (talkcontribs) had already fixed it. Judging by its contributions, I believe it went through them all in order and fixed them. So, you should be O.K. now. —RuakhTALK 21:02, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Yeah. I went back to restore my change to template:form of, only to discover that no one had ever reverted it.​—msh210 15:19, 5 August 2010 (UTC)


Auto linking to English sectionsEdit

With no language specified and the second parameter unlinked, the template currently generates a link to #English: {{form of|x|y}} = {{form of|x|y}}. With a link: {{form of|x|[[y]]}} = {{form of|x|[[y]]}}. Can this be fixed, please? Nadando 02:56, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Fixed how? Should it link to #English anyway? (That's hard AFAICT.) Should it not link to #English in any event? (That's probably advisable IMO, and easy AFAICT.)​—msh210 (talk) 15:45, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, it should definitely not link to English by default, ie, {{form of|x|[[y]]}} and {{form of|x|y}} should both simply link to y. Nadando 17:15, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

StatsEdit

During February 2011, I have changed some French and Italian uses of this template to the more structured {{conjugation of}}. I was surprised how many places used this template. --LA2 00:40, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

occurrences / Date 2010-10-05 2011-02-05 2011-03-08 2011-03-21 2011-04-02
lang=Italian 299676 296876 107717 22642 1
lang=French 45403 41497 2183 3 3
lang=fr 18890 22852 4314 4345 4158
lang=da 15804 16982 17319 17453 17637
lang=it 177 5440 7271 6694 238
lang=gd 1214 1194 1189 1194 1192
lang=es 206 904 913 917 918
lang=Spanish 644 3 3 0 0
lang=fro 438 451 452 452 480
lang=cs 227 227 363 347 345
lang=Irish 201 201 0 0 0
lang=ga 270 275
lang=ca 176 40 41 41 42
lang=he 158 188 191 199 200
lang=nl 20 149 145 143 143
lang=Czech 137 133 0 0 0
lang=Dutch 127 0 0 0 0
lang=gv 5 115 115 115 115
lang=ang 22 112 282 284 285
lang=is 101 105 108 100 100
lang=Old English 83 1 1 0 0
lang=no 73 78 78 80 80
lang=Portuguese 86 71 0 0 0
lang=Galician 61 61 0 0 0

Bring into line with plural of et al.Edit

See the related discussion at Wiktionary:GP#Form of templates or April 2011 archive when so archived. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:15, 30 April 2011 (UTC)