User talk:Mahagaja/Archive 20

Kangchenjunga

As a pronunciation expert, would you perhaps be interested in adding IPA to Kangchenjunga? Audio is in some of the linked OneLook dictionaries online. I feel this word is more interesting than many other words as for IPA since there is such a variation in spelling in various languages. Thank you in advance. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:58, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

*dala-

It was moved here because the descendants disagree on the gender, and thus the lemma form. —Rua (mew) 22:06, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

• @Rua: I know, but the inflection template depends on the name of the page, and under *dala- the inflection template was thinking it was a consonant stem and generating impossible forms. Even specifying |stem=a didn't help. I think the usage note on the page makes it clear that the gender is uncertain. —Mahāgaja · talk 22:11, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

---

Using {{d}}

Thank you for your help.Angelucci (talk) 13:41, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

---

κυανός

Maha! about ipa at κυανός. Ths first one /ci.a`nos/ is perfect. The second made me wonder: wherrrre did you get it from? Or did you just write down as you were listening from a specific speaker/audio? Because, in some instances of fast or personal style, any [ci] [ce] might be uttered as a ccçç if the speaker prolongs it for some reason but mostly if it is stressed. e.g. κι άλλο = some more /`cia.lo/ He could say You already had two chocolates, you want ccççaaaalo? I'll have to ask someone at the linglab of Uni.Athens for this one. sarri.greek (talk) 09:50, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek: I didn't get /cçaˈnos/ from anywhere; I just imagined that it might be the normal colloquial pronunciation. If it sounds odd to you as a native speaker, I'll remove it. It was really nothing more than a guess on my part. —Mahāgaja · talk 09:58, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

You did, [@Mahagaja? you have an excellent ear for greek, then. But really: does not ANY [c] turn into [ç] easily? I have NOT studied phonetics. I will ask someone (next month) and I'll let you know, what they think about the greek [c]. PS greek phoneticians still quarrel about [ts] and [dz] and many other things, which leaves us laymen WITHOUT answers in several issues. For instance I cannot say how many phthongi there are in greek, because they have not made up their mind yet :) sarri.greek (talk) 10:07, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek: I've studied phonetics and phonology, but all I know about Modern Greek specifically is what I've read at Modern Greek phonology and deduced from the pronunciation info given here at Wiktionary. —Mahāgaja · talk 10:54, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

Mahāgaja, I asked on Thursday the profs at the phonetics-lab of the Athens Univer. about /çi.aˈnos/ /cçaˈnos/ and they told me that the first is ok, the second no. I asked them some more questions (some confirmations i needed). There are not many phoneticians in Greece at the moment. I checked the CVs of the ones i met, but they are not strictly phoneticians. I understand that a really good one teaches at the Univ. of Crete. sarri.greek (talk) 17:16, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

OK, thanks for the followup! —Mahāgaja · talk 17:18, 23 March 2019 (UTC)

huepa

You added Spanish word "huepa" to the wanted entries list. I tried to google it and it seems to me that "Huepa" is a family name, but I find nothing on "huepa". Google Books doesn't produce anything that makes sense either. Are you sure you don't mean "Huepa"? Where have you seen it? --Hekaheka (talk) 20:33, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

@Hekaheka: I haven't seen it so much as heard it. It seems to be some sort of exclamation of joy in Latin American countries. I did find a mention (rather than a use) here; it and güepa seem to be variants of epa, which we do have an entry for. Gloria Estefan has a song called "Wepa" which is a different spelling of the same thing. But I'm having trouble finding CFI-compliant cites for any spelling. —Mahāgaja · talk 20:53, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

I must ask from my Peruvian son-in-law. --Hekaheka (talk) 22:08, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

little question

Dear Mahāgaja, I need your advice: I have to edit, for el.witkionary, Categories for the മലയാളം Malayalam lemmata. I must put an accent on the word. I see the IPA is [maləjɑːɭəm], so I would write it 'μαλαγιάλαμ' (malajálam). Is that OK? (I am asking you because for some reason it is often pronounced malajalám and now i have to change the mis-pronounced names of its categories). --sarri.greek (talk) 02:53, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't really know anything about Malayalam stress placement. w:Malayalam#Phonology says nothing about it. I do have one book on stress patterns around the world that says the stress placement rule for Malayalam is:

1. If the first syllable has a short vowel and the second syllable has a long vowel, primary stress goes on the second syllable.
2. Otherwise, primary stress goes on the first syllable.
3. Secondary stress goes on all long vowels after the primary stress.

If those rules are right, then I expect the stress placement to be [ˈmaləˌjɑːɭəm] but I can't guarantee that's right. I don't know who to ask; there are only 5 people in Category:User ml, and none of them are currently active on Wiktionary. —Mahāgaja · talk 10:19, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Ο my god! the little question inflated! I didn't mean to burden you with all that work, thanks Mahāgaja. Well, if you are right, and you always are, the stress pattern is impossible in greek, (or double `mala`jalam which is nice for a compound) so i'll compromise with mala`jalam. Thank you Μεγάλε! --sarri.greek (talk) 03:14, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for ἐξώστης

Thank you, Great One, for your help at ἐξώστης and all your corrections.

• _Quotations: I had problem with: Herodotus does not link to #vXXX, Hippocrates and Hesychius I couldn't find how they are usually done.
  
• _Stems: I see that you erase the stem presentation at etymologies, like here, and I know that en.wiktionary refers to stems only if from older phases (Proto-...). But students of anc.greek (-well, they are not too many-) find very helpful to see the stems. They cannot see how a ...θ- word has anything to do with a ...σ- word. It would be marvelous to have all the stems of every verb in full view, with principal tenses. And stems above every inflection. I don't mind at all not writing them.
  
• _modern greek polytonic and monotonic (in descendants). Theoretically, every modern word which used to have a diacritic up to 1982, may have 2 lemmata. At descendants section, there is an impression that if a word is polytonic, then it is not modern. So, i try to give both versions. Again, I can omit it, if you do not want it.
  

You do not need to answer, I know how busy you are. I will do as you have shown in your corrections. I just wanted to share the thoughts. --sarri.greek (talk) 15:05, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek: I don't have time to answer all your points at the moment, but as for the polytonic modern Greek lemmas: of course we can have them, but we don't need to link to them in the etymology section. It's sufficient to link to the main entry. We do the same with any other language: we mention the word at its primary spelling, but we don't list all the variant spellings when showing what it's a descendant of. —Mahāgaja · talk 15:19, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Irish verbal nouns again

In the case of a word like obair, let's say we split the verbal noun into its own Verb section, while leaving the remaining senses under Noun. How much of the information from the current Noun section would then need to be duplicated to the new Verb section? Do verbal nouns express gender in any way? Are they ever inflected when used as verbal nouns? Plural? —Rua (mew) 12:31, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

That's not a great example because obair isn't actually the usual verbal noun of oibrigh; rather, oibriú is. There are only a few phrases where obair feels more like a verbal noun than an ordinary noun. So let's look at caitheamh instead: certainly any of the translations that can be interpreted as "an act of Xing" (consumption, spending, passing, shooting, firing) would need to be repeated, and any of those not currently listed as translations of caith could be. I don't know to what extent verbal nouns express gender, though native speakers are certainly aware of the gender of all verbal nouns because of their nounlike uses, and they do have genitives, which are sometimes different for verbal nouns than for corresponding substantive nouns (e.g. caitheamh, whose genitive is caithimh as a normal noun and caite as a verbal noun). They don't have plurals.

By the way, have you edited the module so that it's no longer categorizing into CAT:Irish verbal nouns? They seem to be disappearing out of the category, which I think is a very bad idea. —Mahāgaja · talk 12:48, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

I haven't changed anything yet. Benwing has been making a lot of changes to the form-of module, and I had to revert some of it a few days ago because it was misbehaving. It probably has something to do with that somehow.

In reply to what you said, can verbal nouns that have no additional meaning other than being a verbal noun still be used as regular nouns too? Also, you mentioned before that Welsh also has verbal nouns, but they are the lemma so we don't have inflections for them. Assuming that Welsh verbal nouns can have additional senses not included in the verb, how do we handle those currently? —Rua (mew) 14:42, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

"Can verbal nouns that have no additional meaning other than being a verbal noun still be used as regular nouns too?" I think so, but since I'm not a native speaker, I'm not 100% sure. Of course it isn't always easy to tell the difference: imagine that we didn't have the word destruction in English but always used destroying. It would often be difficult to tell whether it was being used as a gerund and when it was being used a real noun. In the Welsh case, if the noun usage has additional meanings, we just separate L3 headers for ===Verb=== and ===Noun===. —Mahāgaja · talk 14:51, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Borrowing?

I see that you've written here that the Yiddish word שפראך is a German borrowing, and not a direct descendant of old-German.

Do you have a source for that? The pronunciation is consistent with regular Germanic Yiddish words, and my understanding is that this isn't a "daytshmerism". --Shad Veyosiv (talk) 04:29, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

I did read it somewhere, but I don't remember where now. As I understand it, the expected inherited form would have been *שפּראָך with o rather than שפּראַך with a, so the vocalism shows that this has to be a loanword. —Mahāgaja · talk 13:59, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Makes sense, as it's a long "a" in OHG. I still think that the word is much too common and universally used to be a daytshmerizm. --Shad Veyosiv (talk) 15:30, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Is it? I thought the usual word for "language" was לשון (loshen) anyway, while שפּראַך (shprakh) was a more learned term. —Mahāgaja · talk 15:32, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

לשון is mostly used only in specific phrases (e.g. "מאַמע-לשון", "תרגום-לשון" etc), it is rarely (if ever) used as a word for itself. --Shad Veyosiv (talk) 15:36, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh, okay. I didn't realize that. —Mahāgaja · talk 15:37, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

A lot of words borrowed from German have stuck around and are seen as standard rather than daytshmerish, often with modified meanings or contextual use. I don't think that's a reason to be suspicious. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 04:30, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Bremen rhyme

Are you sure? I've heard it pronounced with /ɛmən/ quite often. —Rua (mew) 21:08, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

I've never heard it myself; even before I moved to Germany I only heard /ˈbɹeɪmən/ (e.g. when I heard "The Musicians of Bremen" as a kid), but both my British and my American dictionaries do list /ˈbɹɛmən/ as a less common alternative. —Mahāgaja · talk 21:14, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Verbal particles and the past habitual

1. Before I get into that, much to my surprise, the full Caighdeán grammar is available online...for free! We now have the definitive source on Irish grammar, so answering questions should be a lot easier.

2. I was looking at "Na Briathra Neamhrialta" (section 5.4, p. 88), and, as it turns out, past forms of verbal particles are only used with the simple past, not the past habitual or conditional. I thought I'd let you know before making such major changes. Esszet (talk) 23:24, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Well, we have the definitive source for school-Irish grammar. But as a descriptive dictionary we mustn't ignore the grammar of Irish as she is spoke, and as she is writ by native-speaker authors, who are more likely to follow their own native dialects than what the Caighdeán says. —Mahāgaja · talk 08:37, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Well yeah, but we gots to say dat, now we know how dem fancy people speak and how those uneducated churls do. Esszet (talk) 12:02, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

tbq-lob-pro

The code tbq-lob-pro (proto-Lolo-Burmese) is not working, I wonder if you could help fix it? PhanAnh123 (talk) 01:41, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

It's not working because it hasn't been created. I created tbq-lob as a family, but w:Lolo-Burmese languages doesn't mention any work that's been done on reconstructing Proto-L-B, so I didn't create a code for it. Have scholars been working on reconstructing it? —Mahāgaja · talk 08:01, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Gramercy pronunciation

Thanks for adding the UK-US distinction for gramercy, I noticed though that you syllabified the second pronunciation as /gɹæm.ə/ instead of /gɹæ.mə/. Any reason you think that is a better way to do it? I would think that usually one would syllabify with syllables beginning with consonants and not have one ending in a consonant before a syllable that begins with a vowel. Let me know, thanks 2WR1 (talk) 18:00, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

It's a convention in many English-language dictionaries to put consonants in the coda after a stressed checked vowel like /æ/. There's psycholinguistic evidence that a single consonant after a stressed checked vowel in English is actually ambisyllabic (i.e. simultaneously in the coda of the previous syllable and the onset of the following syllable, like a geminate consonant but without noticeable length), but since there's no convenient way to mark ambisyllabicity in the IPA (or any other linear transcription), the convention is to show the consonant as the coda while understanding that it is actually simultaneously in the onset of the following syllable. Not all dictionaries follow this convention, though, and I don't think it's ever been formalized at Wiktionary, but I find it sensible, so I use it when I add English pronunciations. —Mahāgaja · talk 18:07, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

That makes sense, I get the ambisyllabicity. Should this maybe be formalised? The more standard English IPA can be across English entries, the better, I would say. 2WR1 (talk) 18:21, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

I've long since given up trying to standardize IPA transcription of English entries at Wiktionary. There are just too many people with strong but conflicting views on any number of issues, which is why Appendix:English pronunciation is so full of alternative ways of transcribing the same thing. —Mahāgaja · talk 18:45, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Oh, well, haha, I definitely get that, thanks! 2WR1 (talk) 18:51, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your help @Mahagaja: you always answer my little questions, so fast! I am doing inflection.pages, and, with the recent changes of templates, i have to rewrite all my cheatsheets... I am still uncertain of what the correct way to write things is. There is this User:Erutuon/Ancient Greek model pages, which User:Erutuon kindly created, but the models are few, and infl.forms need updating; most of them are missing. I was hoping that one day there could be a Help:Ancient Greek model pages, including inflection forms, ready for copypaste!! Something like: 5 nouns, 5 adj, 3 verbs with all their forms. PS You do not need to answer this. I just wanted you to know about it. sarri.greek (talk) 16:51, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

termon

Hello Irish expert. Can you check the entry for termon? I suspect there's an Irish etymology that I'm not qualified to add --Gibraltar Rocks (talk) 09:47, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Help please

Hello. I have a wiki project on localhost with xampp. When I use {{inh|az|trk-pro|*durunja}} a problem occur. "Lua error in Module:languages at line 162: attempt to call field 'getByCode' (a nil value).." I have no idea about issue. But {{inh|ast|la|anima}} works fine. Can you help me please? --Azpolyglot85 (talk) 11:21, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I have no idea what's causing the error, but the code you mention above is currently working fine for me at durna. —Mahāgaja · talk 13:00, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Do you have the modules on which {{inh}} depends? DCDuring (talk) 13:07, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

@DCDuring if you talking about {{Module:etymology/templates}}, yes I created the module. --Azpolyglot85 (talk) 18:00, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Do you have the whole suite of them? I'm no expert, but the architecture of modules can be quite baroque, so others might be needed. I am often disheartened by the long lists of modules used in an entry as revealed by the "Show preview" button. DCDuring (talk) 18:09, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

@DCDuring yes I created all of them. --Azpolyglot85 (talk) 18:29, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Could there be something more basic, such as a difference between your site's wiki software and ours? Sadly, I have insufficient technical knowledge to help. Good luck. DCDuring (talk) 18:50, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

My technical knowledge is also insufficient for this issue. Perhaps someone at the Grease pit can help you further. —Mahāgaja · talk 18:53, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Community Insights Survey

Share your experience in this survey

Hi Mahagaja/Archive 20,

The Wikimedia Foundation is asking for your feedback in a survey about your experience with Wiktionary and Wikimedia. The purpose of this survey is to learn how well the Foundation is supporting your work on wiki and how we can change or improve things in the future. The opinions you share will directly affect the current and future work of the Wikimedia Foundation.

Please take 15 to 25 minutes to give your feedback through this survey. It is available in various languages.

This survey is hosted by a third-party and governed by this privacy statement (in English).

Find more information about this project. Email us if you have any questions, or if you don't want to receive future messages about taking this survey.

Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 14:34, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights Survey

Share your experience in this survey

Hi Mahagaja/Archive 20,

A couple of weeks ago, we invited you to take the Community Insights Survey. It is the Wikimedia Foundation’s annual survey of our global communities. We want to learn how well we support your work on wiki. We are 10% towards our goal for participation. If you have not already taken the survey, you can help us reach our goal! Your voice matters to us.

Please take 15 to 25 minutes to give your feedback through this survey. It is available in various languages.

This survey is hosted by a third-party and governed by this privacy statement (in English).

Find more information about this project. Email us if you have any questions, or if you don't want to receive future messages about taking this survey.

Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 19:14, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights Survey

Share your experience in this survey

Hi Mahagaja/Archive 20,

There are only a few weeks left to take the Community Insights Survey! We are 30% towards our goal for participation. If you have not already taken the survey, you can help us reach our goal! With this poll, the Wikimedia Foundation gathers feedback on how well we support your work on wiki. It only takes 15-25 minutes to complete, and it has a direct impact on the support we provide.

Please take 15 to 25 minutes to give your feedback through this survey. It is available in various languages.

This survey is hosted by a third-party and governed by this privacy statement (in English).

Find more information about this project. Email us if you have any questions, or if you don't want to receive future messages about taking this survey.

Sincerely,

RMaung (WMF) 17:04, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Userpage

Hey. Plz undelete my userpage if nobody else has. Thx --Vealhurl (talk) 10:28, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

See Category:Requests for inflections in Irish entries

Formerly, both Category:Requests for inflections in Irish entries and Category:Irish entries needing inflection existed. I changed the places that populated the latter to populate the former instead, so there's no need for the latter category. Benwing (talk) 15:14, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Oh, okay. —Mahāgaja · talk 15:15, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Check the guideline please!

Hi, thanks for showing around! Would you please take a look at 𐕜 if I wrote it according to guideline? If yes, then I will fix others too! --Cavidaga (talk) 15:01, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

@Cavidaga: The pronunciation line should begin with an asterisk. The References section should be at L3 (i.e. have three equals signs on either side of it). Also, we prefer the term Further reading for general links; we usually use References only in cases where we've added footnotes by means of <ref> and <references/> tags. See my changes here. —Mahāgaja · talk 15:15, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

@Mahagaja: Thank you! I will fix the rest and do others accordingly. --Cavidaga (talk) 15:24, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

gold

You made changes to [[gold]] with an edit summary claiming that they were pursuant to WT:NORM. WT:NORM says nothing whatsoever about formatting within templates. It is the templates themselves that are supposed to make their output conform to WT:NORM.

In the course of your misleadingly edit-summarized edits you deleted content. It took me a while to figure out and reverse what I knew was wrong. I will not take the time to figure it out the next times. I will simply revert the edit. I will also commence reviewing your edits to find the damaging ones.

If you would take the trouble to prevent your edits from removing content, I would appreciate it. DCDuring (talk) 19:51, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

The WT:NORM edit summary is done automatically; I think it's intended to indicate that there is some way in which the entry in question does not conform to WT:NORM. I don't know what relevant content I deleted at gold, but thanks for restoring it. —Mahāgaja · talk 20:07, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, the WT:NORM tag was pointing out the space at the end of a line. Unfortunate that it caused so much frustration. — Eru·tuon 20:34, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Mapuchuzar

ThankiesNdołkah (talk) 13:56, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

McMahon

Hey Irish expert. Can you help out at McMahon? Lots of etymology stuff not in the etymology section. --ReloadtheMatrix (talk) 20:16, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

Old Irish IPA issues - schwas

I've noticed one odd thing with your IPA transcriptions for Old Irish - none of them contain a single schwa (despite scholarly consensus that yes, Old Irish has phonemic schwa), and you write unstressed non-word-final vowels with "full" values when they should be schwa. Is there a reason why you left them out? mellohi! (僕の乖離) 22:17, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

Already answered on your talk page. —Mahāgaja · talk 22:21, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

Bovids

So I'm not the only one confused by this? —Rua (mew) 17:14, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

Apparently not, but I already fixed it. —Mahāgaja · talk 17:14, 31 December 2019 (UTC)