Princeps linguae

Automatic transliteration for declension templates

Are you able to add the kn-translit module to your declension templates? Would you like to do so? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 13:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I also forgot to type a greeting to you. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 13:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Sure, I would love to add a transliteration to the declension templates, as well as the conjugation templates. How do I do so? Also, I've noticed a problem with the transliteration of this character "ಂ" (the "sonne" or the "anusvara")--it's transliterated as "m" without any dots at all. Whom would I contact to get that fixed?

Update: I used the Template:l for transliteration but that pesky problem with the anusvara is still there. For example, "ಮರದಿಂದ" (instrumental-ablative case form of "ಮರ") is transliterated as "maradimda" instead of "maradinda" as it should be. Will using the kn-translit module solve this problem? How do I use it, then?

I've edited the module to make it convert anusvara to dotted "ṃ", is this OK? Wyang (talk) 23:30, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much! However, (sorry for being picky), in transliteration of Indian languages, a dot underneath usually indicates a retroflex consonant. So, if it's possible, I think a better transliteration would be "m" with dot above it (ṁ). Thanks again!

m with a dot below is the standard transliteration of this letter as far as I know. See w:IAST. —CodeCat 14:23, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

I guess that would be fine then. I was going by ISO 15919 or the UN transliteration scheme of 1977. Thanksǃ But is contextual transliteration of the anusvara possible? For example, the transliteration would represent that anusvara is pronounced "n" before dental consonants, "ṅ" before velars, etc.

On an unrelated(?) topic, I'm taking that you're going on a vacation like I did to visit Twin Falls, Idaho and Redfish Lake? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 15:43, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Or is it something else? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 15:43, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Me? Yeah, I'm just going on vacation.

ಕುರ್ಚಿ

I wonder if ಕುರ್ಚಿ (kurci) is a real noun or otherwise. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 16:59, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh, yes, it is. Borrowed from Arabic, Persian, or Urdu, I believe, but it definitely is a real Kannada noun. But there are several other words for chair, some borrowed and some formed with native wordsː https://kn.wiktionary.org/wiki/chair. Princeps linguae (talk) 17:08, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

You mean کرسی f? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 07:13, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Well, more accurately, it was borrowed from the Arabic word from which the Urdu word derived: كُرْسِيّ m (kursiyy). But the word probably passed from Arabic to Urdu and then to Hindi and then to Kannada. Princeps linguae (talk) 13:19, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

"ಪೀಠ" and "ಅಧಿಕಾರಸ್ಥಾನ" are Sanskrit-borrowed words. Native Kannada words for "chair" are "ಕೂರು," "ಮಣೆ," and "ನಾಲ್ಕಾಲಿಗೆ." However, "ಕೂರು" has a huge number of synonyms, and "ಮಣೆ" usually means "stool." "ನಾಲ್ಕಾಲಿಗೆ," as far as I can tell, means "that which has four legs," because it seems to be a compound of "ನಾಲ್" ("four") and "ಕಾಲ್" ("leg") and the nominalizing suffix "ಇಗೆ."

Some help with Kannada

Hi, could you do me a favour and have a look at this user page? :) I know well Google translate is not often very reliable (esp. with lesser known languages and such but a quick test with that, despite the translation being rubbish makes me wonder if this user page is just spam or what... I would be grateful if you could take a look and give me the gist of what it's saying. Thanks. User: PalkiaX50 ^{talk to meh} 21:37, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Are you sure it's Kannada? There are other languages that use the same script. At any rate, I don't see how the page is of any use whatsoever for building an English-language dictionary. It's your call, but if I had seen this first, I would have deleted it on sight- their total contributions for all Wikimedia projects consist of 2 edits: creating a similar non-English-text user page at Wikipedia, and creating this page. Chuck Entz (talk) 01:59, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Chuck Entz is right--it could be of a different language, like Tulu, which uses the same script. However, it could be a dialect of Kannada, and I'm afraid I only communicate in the standard Bengaluru/Mysore dialect of the language, and not in the Mangalore or coastal dialects, which are substantially different in vocabulary and grammar (as opposed to English, which just has minor vocabulary/spelling differences and accent differences). In any case, it seems to be a biography of the Kannada poet Kuvempu. However, it's definitely not standard Kannada. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Princeps linguae (talk) 03:03, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Question

I've come across the Kannada word ಗುಣಪದ or guṇapada a couple of times, and I was wondering if it was another way of saying noun. Please let me know :) Thanks, Razorflame 19:25, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

"ಗುಣಪದ" (guṇapada) translates literally to "quality word"--it means "adjective," not "noun." Usually, the word "ನಾಮಪದ" (nāmapada) is used for noun, and sometimes "ಹೆಸರುಪದ" (hesarupada) is also used. For adjective, "ಗುಣವಾಚಕ" (guṇavācaka) is also used. Princeps linguae (talk) 20:25, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the information. I knew nāmapada was noun, but wasn't sure about guṇapada. Cheers, Razorflame 23:31, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Also, what's the correct transliteration of my username? Cheers, Razorflame 23:52, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I would change the translation itself to "ಕತ್ತಿಯುರಿ" (kattiuri). Your English transliteration says "bāḷujvāle," but in compound words it isn't good practice to mix native Kannada words and foreign derived words (in this case, "jvāle" is derived from Sanskrit and "bāḷu" is a native Kannada word). "Tīkṣṇajvāle" (which is what the Kannada you have actually have transliterates to) is made of two Sanskrit words and so is an acceptable compound word. So you could either change the transliteration to "tīkṣṇajvāle," or change the translation to "ಕತ್ತಿಯುರಿ" (kattiuri). "Katti," by the way, is a synonym for "bāḷu," and means in the most literal sense "sword"; however, "bāḷu" actually is a homonym--it can also mean "life," and to avoid confusion, you can use "katti," which means "razor/sword" as well. Sorry if that was confusing! :) Princeps linguae (talk) 00:13, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Nope, this actually makes sense to me. Definitely don't want to get some terms from derived foreign words mixed up in native Kannada ;) Razorflame 00:17, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

ತಡೆ

Since you know quite a bit more about the language than I do, I was hoping that you'd be able to make heads or tails of this term. I created an entry for it in the past, but requested it to be deleted because of the multitude of senses that there were for this word. Hopefully, you're able to make sense of each of the senses and make sure that they are grouped together.

Here's a list of all the translations for this term that I got a few years ago:

• disability, embargo, encumbrance, fender, hamper, hitch, hurdle, moratorium, obstacle, suspension, resistance
• to detain, to discomfit, to discourage, to block, to cumber, to debar, to dissuade, to enjoin, to inhibit, to interrupt, to obstruct, to obviate, to occlude, to pause, to stave off, to stop, to suit, to support, to prevent, to prohibit, to restrain

As you can see, there are a ton of different translations for this term, and hopefully, you're able to make the entry as correct as possible. Thanks for the help, and cheers, Razorflame 00:15, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the re-addition of this entry :) Cheers, Razorflame 12:56, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

ಕಾಪು and ನಡೆ

Another two entries that were deleted earlier that can now be recreated because you're quite a bit more knowledgeable :) Again, it's a word with many senses, which is why it was deleted in the first place. We needed someone to verify the senses, and I'm sure you'll do a good job :) Thanks again, Razorflame 00:37, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Transliteration checking

Hello again! Another user, who is a friend of mine here on the English Wiktionary, was helping me out by checking the transliterations I do on this page: User:Razorflame/Kannada/KNTL/TBC. Since you're more knowledgeable about Kannada, I was hoping you could check that page every once in a while and mark the transliterations as correct or not whenever you have the time. I'd just like to make sure that the transliterations that I come up with are correct before adding the entry. Thanks, Razorflame 12:59, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

I would be glad to do so but when you are adding entries if you don't put anything in "kn-noun|tr=" (or "kn-verb" or whatever) and just leave it like that, Wiktionary will automatically transliterate the word for you, so there is no need to go through the hassle of searching for the appropriate symbols and read the words. Whenever I add an entry, I just leave it blank so I don't have to manually transliterate it. Hope that helps! Princeps linguae (talk) 19:46, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

How are you supposed to get better at learning the language if you can't do the simple task of transliteration of the symbols? Isn't that like one of the bases for learning a fairly important part of it, or is it just for the benefit of the written language? Thanks also for the note, Razorflame 00:31, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Newsflash: the goal is to create accurate entries, not to teach yourself languages you don't know by trial and error. Chuck Entz (talk) 02:32, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Of course not. I don't intend to do so. My goal is to create only accurate entries as well, which is why I'm asking for help here. Razorflame 02:35, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

If you really want to manually transliterate Kannada entries, then, yes, I can check your transliterations. Princeps linguae (talk) 17:24, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

By the way, who is the friend that you mentioned in the original post? Princeps linguae (talk) 17:27, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Stephen G. Brown. Razorflame 05:57, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

ದೊಡ್ಡ ಕೆರೆ

After checking the translations for the two words that make up this word, I believe this word is more like someone calling on the American Great Lakes. That's the only translation that I can think of that makes sense. Then again, it could also be SOP, as dodda + kere = great/big/large lake...let me know what you think! Razorflame 00:54, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, this is definitely the sum of parts: it means nothing more than "big lake." Actually, I should have marked this entry for verification/deletion, but I was too lazy to do so when I found that it existed. Princeps linguae (talk) 17:26, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

No need to mark it for either. I can request it for speedy deletion and it should easily be deleted under "user request" Razorflame 05:58, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Princeps linguae (talk) 14:34, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

ಬಾಲಚುಕ್ಕಿ

I found this other translation for comet, and I wanted to make sure it was correct before adding it. Cheers, Razorflame 06:17, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it is valid, but it unfortunately lacks the three attestations that Wiktionary requires for an entry. A word of caution: the Kannada Wiktionary has a lot of words that the users have coined for various reasons and that no one actually uses. The Kannada word for comet is "ಧೂಮಕೇತು," borrowed from Sanskrit, just as "comet" is borrowed from Greek. However, the Kannada Wiktionary has a lot of "made-up" substitutes for Sanskrit-derived words because these users are worried about Kannada's "purity," so they coined a Kannada equivalent. "ಬಾಲಚುಕ್ಕಿ" literally means "tail star" and "ಧೂಮಕೇತು" literally means "smoke star" (because of the trail). As admirable as their concerns are, Wiktionary is supposed to represent actual usage. Short version: yes, the translation is correct, but don't add it. Princeps linguae (talk) 20:54, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Not a problem! Thanks for the information :) Razorflame 03:08, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Are you still actively editing?

You were pretty much Wiktionary's only Kannada editor :( South Asian languages need more editors, sad to see you go. —Aryamanarora ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 18:08, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I'm back now! Princeps linguae (talk) 01:19, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

Aaaaand now that I'm finally back, I see you're gone again... —Aryamanarora ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 22:53, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Nope, still here, just not that active :) Princeps linguae (talk) 18:50, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

@Princeps linguae: If you do decide to come back, note that User:माधवपंडित is a native Kannada speaker. —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 19:40, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

@Aryamanarora: Thanks for letting me know! Actually, I just published two articles on the Kannada Wikipedia the other day: one about ಪುರುಷಸಂಯೋಗ (the hypostatic union) and the other about ಪಂಚಭೇದ (the Dvaita school of philosophy's doctrine of five differences). Princeps linguae (talk) 20:35, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Nice! The most I've ever done on hi.wiki is add stubs for historical events... btw, I might try to a extract a Kannada frequency list from this corpus within two or so weeks, if that would be useful. —Aryaman ^{(मुझसे बात करो)} 22:33, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

ನಮಸ್ಕಾರ! I'm impressed, I could never write a full article in Kannada. My few entries at Kannada Wiktionary have been laughable. Looking forward to working with you,
ɱɑɗɦɑѵ (talk) 08:32, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Working together

I think maybe we should work together on some of the Kannada entries that I've created in the past. I can create a page that lists all the Kannada entries I've made that I used the Kannada Wiktionary for and you can go through and see if they are accurate or not, or we can work out some other kind of arrangement. Let me know, Razorflame 03:39, 6 April 2018 (UTC)