Reconstruction talk:Proto-Germanic/Fardinanþaz
Latest comment: 4 years ago by Holodwig21 in topic RFD discussion: November 2019
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One descendant, Latin Ferdinandus. The first individual I found was Ferdinand I of León, therefore, all Ferdinands appear to derived from Spanish becasue the name only becomes popular much later; in addition, German Ferdinand doesn't display the High German consonant shift, which means the name is borrowed from another language. 𐌷𐌻𐌿𐌳𐌰𐍅𐌹𐌲𐍃 𐌰𐌻𐌰𐍂𐌴𐌹𐌺𐌹𐌲𐌲𐍃 (talk) 15:10, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Holodwig21, the easy solution is just to move it to a Latin entry. --
{{victar|talk}}19:29, 23 November 2019 (UTC)- @Victar: Right, given I have already explained my position I have decided to moved the page. 𐌷𐌻𐌿𐌳𐌰𐍅𐌹𐌲𐍃 𐌰𐌻𐌰𐍂𐌴𐌹𐌺𐌹𐌲𐌲𐍃 (talk) 20:00, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Holodwig21: 👍 I wouldn't even ask in such future cases. --
{{victar|talk}}20:13, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Holodwig21: 👍 I wouldn't even ask in such future cases. --
- @Victar: Right, given I have already explained my position I have decided to moved the page. 𐌷𐌻𐌿𐌳𐌰𐍅𐌹𐌲𐍃 𐌰𐌻𐌰𐍂𐌴𐌹𐌺𐌹𐌲𐌲𐍃 (talk) 20:00, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
- According to Wikipedia: “The name was adopted in Romance languages from its use in the Visigothic Kingdom. It is reconstructed as either Gothic Ferdinanths or Frithunanths.” — This unsigned comment was added by Lambiam (talk • contribs) at 17:14, 23 November 2019.
- Possibly; given most medieval names come from either old Frankish or Gothic; still, that wouldn't mean it existed in Proto-Germanic. 𐌷𐌻𐌿𐌳𐌰𐍅𐌹𐌲𐍃 𐌰𐌻𐌰𐍂𐌴𐌹𐌺𐌹𐌲𐌲𐍃 (talk) 00:13, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
- The point is that if it is known that the name was used in the Visigothic Kingdom, then presumably something is known about historical figures bearing the name, which preceded Ferdinand I by at least three centuries, in which case the latter was hardly the first bearer of the name. If there are Latin texts surviving from that period, it is possible and not implausible that they use the Latinization Ferdinandus. It is possible that the vernacular name survived the Umayyad conquest, to resurface with Fernando. However this may be, it looks like the etymology of Latin Ferdinandus needs to be adjusted. BTW, also Frankish *Fardinanth is claimed to be a descendant of Proto-Germanic *Fardinanþaz. --Lambiam 21:36, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Lambiam: While Wikipedia states that, it doesn't give anyone from that period who bore that name. While I can agree with you that Ferdinand I of León isn't the first to be named Ferdinand; as far as I know, there is nobody famous from the Visigothic period named Ferdinand. The problem with that Frankish reconstruction is that there isn't any French individual with that name in the medieval period that would precede Ferdinand I of León or having been named independently; as such the name could be borrowed from Spanish. 𐌷𐌻𐌿𐌳𐌰𐍅𐌹𐌲𐍃 𐌰𐌻𐌰𐍂𐌴𐌹𐌺𐌹𐌲𐌲𐍃 (talk) 17:52, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
- The point is that if it is known that the name was used in the Visigothic Kingdom, then presumably something is known about historical figures bearing the name, which preceded Ferdinand I by at least three centuries, in which case the latter was hardly the first bearer of the name. If there are Latin texts surviving from that period, it is possible and not implausible that they use the Latinization Ferdinandus. It is possible that the vernacular name survived the Umayyad conquest, to resurface with Fernando. However this may be, it looks like the etymology of Latin Ferdinandus needs to be adjusted. BTW, also Frankish *Fardinanth is claimed to be a descendant of Proto-Germanic *Fardinanþaz. --Lambiam 21:36, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
- Possibly; given most medieval names come from either old Frankish or Gothic; still, that wouldn't mean it existed in Proto-Germanic. 𐌷𐌻𐌿𐌳𐌰𐍅𐌹𐌲𐍃 𐌰𐌻𐌰𐍂𐌴𐌹𐌺𐌹𐌲𐌲𐍃 (talk) 00:13, 24 November 2019 (UTC)