Talk:США

Doubts

Quote:

Usage note: many Russians living in the U.S. consider the lax pronunciation "sɛ-šɛ-á" to be disrespectful and unacceptable.

I have doubts that this is true. It may be a disrespect to the names of the Russian letters but not to the USA. "sɛ-šɛ-á" is much more common, "ɛs-ša-á" is a tongue-twister. Anatoli 05:21, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

The Russian natives that I have known here tend to consider it disrespectful to the country. This was definitely the case prior to 1989. Since that date, it may have changed but I’m not sure. —Stephen 03:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Although I haven't talked much to Russians from the USA, it must be some individual opinions. Some abbreviations, including США, also: ФРГ, ФБР are pronounced the way letters are called colloquially.

A quote from gramota.ru:

...За аббревиатурой США по традиции закрепилось произношение [сэ-шэ-а], т. е. она является особой аббревиатурой: читается по буквам, но не так, как это принято в литературном языке, а так, как буквы С и Ш называют в разговорной речи ....

There are opinions among some Russians, no matter where they live, that abbreviations should be spelled out as in the alphabet but this is seldom followed, e.g. ЗАГС (запись актов гражданского состояния) is simply pronounced ZAGS (read: zaks) and never зэ-а-гэ-эс. Anyway, I found a lot of confirmations that this pronunciation ([сэ-шэ-а]) is common (google) and not offensive or pejorative. It doesn't sound so among Russians in Australia either. I suggest to remove the note if there is no quote. There are other ways to call US in Russian, which are also in common use besides standard and full Соединённые Штаты Америки: Америка, Соединённые Штаты, and more colloquial but not offensive: Штаты. It is an exception like in the doubt I still have. Anatoli 04:11, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Those who think that [сэ-шэ-а] is incorrect also insist on pronounsing the abbreviation [сша], ie "sša", to me it is more of a tongue twister than "ɛs-ša-á" and this idea is not very popular. Anatoli 04:18, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Certainly if you spoke to a Russian who owns a restaurant in San Francisco, or a member of the Russian mafia in Los Angeles, they don’t care how you pronounce it. But Russians who worked for the U.S. Government, the NSA and other organizations during the Cold War were rabidly pro-American. A friend of mine, Колосовский had been a tank commander in the Ukraine during World War II, and if he heard somebody use that pronunciation, he wanted to strangle them. Or the Soviet lawyer Мальбин, who taught classes in a U.S. institution...he would warn you the first time you said [сэ-шэ-а], and after that he would throw you out of his class. —Stephen 05:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

That teacher was very opinionated, I've seen such teachers but they picked more on grammar and word usage, not on the pronunciation. That's history, anyway. Be assured, nobody would cringe if you say [сэ-шэ-а], although Russians are notoriously critical of other native Russians' mispronunciation. The relaxed pronunciation was created by half-educated politicians for whom "сэ" and "шэ" was the norm, not "эс" and "ша" but as I said before, the abbreviations in Russian don't always follow strict alphabetic rules. Even СССР was really seldom pronounced as [эс-эс-эс-эр] but [эс-эс-эр] (one С less) without any thought and ОБХСС sounded [о-бэ-ха-эс] or more often [о-бэ-хэ-эс] (one С less). Anatoli 05:50, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

This topic is not so much of interest to me but I would leave the two pronunciation as possible. Please trust my native language experience. I always watched political news and this is not a word I could be mistaken about. However, if another native Russian speaker confirms that [сэ-шэ-а] sounds disrespectful, I will agree. Even if you are pro-American, [сэ-шэ-а] is a normal and more natural pronunciation of США. A Word Reference Russian forum could be a good start or Master Russian forum - they both have a big number of native Russian speakers of different ages and places they live in. Anatoli 06:00, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Both pronunciations is the way it was always explained. The note about the one pronunciation is marked as pertaining only to some U.S. residents. There are lots of abbreviations and acronyms that have an easier pronunciation that is more common, цэ-сэ-у, фэ-эр-гэ, рэ-ка-ка, вэлкэсэм, but nobody has a problem with any of them, it seems. Only some people with this particular one. —Stephen 07:01, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

On a second thought, I will try to find out more. I have requested more info on the Russian Wikipedia. What I don't like about the comment in the США entry here is the implication that if I say [сэ-шэ-а], I am disrespectful to the USA, albeit it may be an opinion of a small group of people. Anatoli 23:19, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

No, it doesn’t mean that you would be disrespectful at all. As I said, it is (or was) the feeling of some very pro-U.S. Russians living in the U.S. during the Cold War. It may no longer be the case, since most of that group are now extremely old or have already passed away, and the basis for that attitude came to an end in 1989 or shortly thereafter. —Stephen 00:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

By the way, is it really sɛ-ʃɛ-a? I would pronounce sə-ʃə-a, with schwas. --Vahagn Petrosyan 00:08, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

It can be described as such as well but both clear ɛ and reduced ə are used. Anatoli 00:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Ukrainian pronun

@Atitarev Do you know how the Ukrainian version is pronounced? Benwing2 (talk) 04:31, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

@Benwing2: Like in Russian, it's not phonetic and pronounced as се-ше-а́ (se-še-á). --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:56, 1 August 2020 (UTC)