User talk:Atitarev



I noticed you created the article đó. There you wrote:


{{vi-etym-sino|妬|[[that]]; [[there]]; [[those]]}}

This is a shocking claim for me. As far as I know, Sino-Xenic "妬" means jealous. Do you have source to proof what you have writen? Thanks. Dokurrat (talk) 07:21, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

@Dokurrat Hi. I cannot find my source any more. One of the senses of "đó" is indeed "this, that; there" but it may not be Sino-Vietnamese or the character is not . I'll check again when I get home.--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:34, 21 March 2017 (UTC)


Why did you delete this? ---> Tooironic (talk) 02:25, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

How is this or any other English abbreviation a Chinese term? Bring up an RFD restore discussion if you wish. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:46, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Some English abbreviations are commonly used in Chinese, and are even listed in official dictionaries. PPT is the most common way of saying "PowerPoint presentation", and would be easily citable. See also WTO, WHO, etc. ---> Tooironic (talk) 02:20, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
You can restore it yourself if you cite a Chinese dictionary. Sorry to be a pain but I've sent all other romanised Chinese terms to RFV. This one will need citations too if restored. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:30, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
@Tooironic I've restored it with three citations. It shouldn't be a problem now. — justin(r)leung (t...) | c=› } 06:36, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
Good job, thanks! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:37, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Informal translationsEdit

Hi, Anatoli. How's the life under an Armenian prime minister? I notice that you often add informal Armenian translations to English words. I think that this is a bad idea. As you probably know, Armenians often use Russian words in everyday speech. I am not sure if those are Russian borrowings into Armenian or if people are simply temporarily code-switching. I am not sure if words like տորմուզ (tormuz) should even be included in Wiktionary. But certainly they should not be given in translations, as you would not list "Russian" мазган (mazgan) under air conditioner. --Vahag (talk) 07:27, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Ah, OK. Since you added this as an entry and a link in the decendants, I thought it qualifies as a valid translation. տորմուզ is pronounced differently from Russian. However, I don't see any hits in Google books. Which Armenian prime minister do you mean? Does it have to do with the term? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:33, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
@Vahagn Petrosyan BTW, is it considered too bad to include words that are used in spoken Armenian but hardly used in the written? I'm personally curious about such words, especially the numerous Russian loanwords. Perhaps a special category and CFI should be given to them, given the diglossia? No, I'm not a proponent of "the Russian world" ;) --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:38, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
I suspect that -u- in տորմուզ (tormuz) is an Azeri influence, which tries to approximate Russian [ə] with Azeri [ɯ] to which corresponds Armenian [u].
I was referring to Gladys Berejiklian. Aren't you from Sydney?
I too think that documenting the colloquial speech is important, but where do we stop? Some people may say entire sentences in Russian and now also in English. Since that is never written, often I do not know what orthography to use. Many words often preserve foreign phonemes. For now I include in Wiktionary only those words which entered the language long ago, are inflected as Armenian words and often form inner-Armenian compounds and idioms. --Vahag (talk) 07:50, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
No, I'm from Melbourne. I didn't know about G. Berejiklian, congratulations! This kind of diglossia is not unique for Armenian but words like प्लीज़ (plīz, please) are often used in Bollywood movies, even if they are avoided in published dictionaries, so people will want to know what characters are saying, even if it's obvious for English speakers. I did come across some of these anglicisms in Hindi textbooks. I can imagine words like "տորմուզ" can be frequent in Armenian TV shows, even if they are avoided in formal programs. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:57, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
OK, I'll be more tolerant towards including these words. գայկա (gayka) is from the same series. --Vahag (talk) 13:15, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll leave it to your judgement. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 12:08, 27 March 2017 (UTC)


I didn't realize you had created "Template:my-num" when I created {{my-numeral}}. Since Template:my-num was only used on one page, I've deleted it. {{my-numeral}} takes parameters for the digit and for categorizing the numeral as cardinal or ordinal. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 18:15, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

@Angr No problem but I have converted it to a redirect, so that {{my-new}} worked. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 08:14, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Module:sh-translit deletionsEdit

Hi Atitarev. CodeCat tagged Module:sh-translit/testcases/documentation and, therefore, Module:sh-translit/testcases for speedy deletion. You created them both, so do you want them deleted? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 21:25, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I think she's got a solution for SH transliterations both ways, so these may be obsolete. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 21:28, 30 March 2017 (UTC)
Cool. Thanks for letting me know. I've deleted those two pages. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 21:31, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

স্বামী (sbami) pronunciationEdit

Hi, just letting you know that I've seen your question that you sent a week ago on Wikipedia. I'm just going to repeat to what I've replied on that page, in case you haven't seen it yet:

From my lame experience স্ব is probably an irregular consonant cluster that should always pronounced as ʃ. It should be similar to the Hindi ज्ञ (gy) which is really the letters jñ

AWESOME meeos * ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 22:22, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

It seems too lame to me and I don't see a similarity with "ज्ञ". --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 01:03, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
Oh well, it was my guess anyway. What I meant by the similarity with ज्ञ was that it was an irregular cluster, just like the Bengali — AWESOME meeos * ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 01:21, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
It's not an irregular cluster, it's quite common. However, in স্ব, the "b" is always silent. Whenever the letter ‍্ব follows another consonant without a vowel, the "b" is always silent in Bengali, so স্ব is pronounced /ʃ/. —Stephen (Talk) 04:10, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
@Stephen G. Brown Thank you, Stephen! We regularly transliterate () as "s", even if it's pronounced /ʃ/. Now, how should we transliterate স্ব (sb)? "sb" or "s" before I add it to the test cases module? My Bengali phrasebook transliterates স্বামী (sbami) as "shaami". I couldn't find any standard regarding this digraph. I think we should use "s", unless there are objections. Also calling @Aryamanarora, DerekWinters, Wyang, Kc kennylau.
The other thing, I'd like to discuss is, whether we should ignore shwa dropping for Bengali altogether, like Nepali and provide manual transliterations when the inherent vowel is silent. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 08:27, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
I remember that the way Nepali dealt with schwa dropping was putting < > in words that dropped the schwa. For Bengali however, we should use < > for words that keep the ô, and there are much more words that drop the ô and it would be more efficient if we could use less of < >. — AWESOME meeos * ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 08:39, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
Actually, let's use "sb" for that diagraph. I did actually ask kc_kennylau to improve the Bengali translit module, just like he did for the Hindi one — AWESOME meeos * ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 08:41, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
No, we should be descriptive in our transliteraterations. It's pronounced śami so let's transliterate it like that. We can't expect readers to know that sb = ś. —Aryamanarora (मुझसे बात करो) 12:15, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
I agree with Aryamanarora. I don't really care much about the underlying orthography. There are so many languages and scripts, with so many rules, and people can't be expected to know about ‍্ব being silent. I would transcribe clusters with the silent ‍্ব by dropping the "b" from the transcription. The same with ত্ব ("t" instead of "tb"), and so on. I also prefer schwa-dropping, as we do in Hindi. Some languages such as Bengali are (like English) not very phonetic, so a Lua module cannot be expected to get Bengali correct every time. The module is very helpful, but not always perfect. That's good enough for me in most cases. —Stephen (Talk) 13:02, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
@Stephen G. Brown: Nepali also has irregular pronunciation. Probably more than Bengali. What Wyang was able to do was to rewrite it phonetically in the Nepali script and use the transliteration for the phonetic and the orthographic versions. C.f. गाई (gāī) (गाइ (gāi)), for example. We can use both romanisations, perhaps? — AWESOME meeos * ([nʲɪ‿bʲɪ.spɐˈko.ɪtʲ]) 13:15, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
I don't think I would like to see double romanizations. It places too much emphasis on the romanizations. Respelling with phonetic script is very helpful, but it's also a pain to implement. It would be nice to have the capability, but I would not use it myself. I would hope that some other enterprising editor would take on the job of phonetic respelling. Some dictionaries include phonetic respellings, at least on some entries, which is nice. —Stephen (Talk) 13:25, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
We should also be mindful that the pronunciation /ʃ/ is West Bengal Bengali, and not Bangladeshi Bengali, which tends more towards /s/. DerekWinters (talk) 19:24, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
I have added স্বামী (sbami) and ত্বক (tbôk) to Module:bn-translit/testcases with the expected readings "sami" and "tôk". The pronunciation of ত্বক is confirmed at Forvo. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:31, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
@DerekWinters: I've put in both pronunciations in the entry, are they accurate? —Aryamanarora (मुझसे बात करो) 20:52, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Question about short adjectives in poetryEdit

You have said before that the occurrence of short adjectives in poetry doesn't really count because this is a special usage. Can you explain it?

For example, the word дательный should probably not have short forms, as it's non-comparable. Yet in a poem I find this (see [1]):

Иногда мы слишком винительны,
Оскорбительны и невнимательны,
Хорошо еще, что родительны,
Потому что тогда мы – дательны.

The adjectives here are definitely in predicate position, and the rest of them (except родительный) seem reasonable as short forms.

Another example (see [2]):

Ласкайся взахлеб, за живое
Юлой напряженье держи,
Бери, где сошлось без припоя
И дательны все падежи.

Yet another example, which isn't formatted as a poem but may be one anyway (see [3]):

Мы станем добродетельны Мы станем тихонравны Мы станем безусловно родительны и дательны

Thanks. Benwing2 (talk) 02:44, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

@Benwing2 The usage in the poetry, especially in the examples above is definitely a special and rare case. It sounds funny and the words are used not in their normal sense, e.g. "мы дательны" means here "we give", "we are the giving", "we are the ones who give". да́тельный (dátelʹnyj) doesn't have this sense (in the normal usage) and has no short forms but the theoretical forms are used here. If we add short forms without any notes, it would be misleading to learners. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:51, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
@Benwing2 I would also this usage is deliberately incorrect to add a humorous effect.--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:48, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
There's also a vulgar piece of prose for describing Russian cases, no short forms but used in a funny way;)--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:50, 21 April 2017 (UTC)


Hi, I got an email from you today that looks fishy. Did you actually send me anything? --WikiTiki89 02:49, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

@Wikitiki89 Hmm, it's a worry no. Could you forward it back to me, please? I hope you don't have to block my email address. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 02:51, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
I don't want to proliferate it because Gmail is warning me that "it contains content typically used to steal personal information". But it basically says that you shared something with me on DropBox and wants me to click on some links. The subject is "Kindly view". You should check your sent mail if it shows up there to see if you sent it to anyone else. --WikiTiki89 02:57, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
No, I don't have anything of the kind in the sent items. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 03:00, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Either way, you should have your system checked for viruses. Whatever it is has access to your address book, and is at least spoofing your email address, if not using your actual email account. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:35, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
It's a Yahoo account, which was compromised. I have applied a recommended security setting. I hope it fixes it.--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 07:16, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
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