Talk:Suecophile

Capitalisation

This word should probably have a capital letter at the start, just like other prefixes at Appendix:English nationality prefixes. Lilac pig (talk) 17:06, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

 Done Equinox ◑ 13:10, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Swedophile

This is much rarer than Swedophile and may not even be attestable. If it passes the RFV, the definition should be:

1. Synonym of Swedophile.

Then, of course, we need the entry for Swedophile.

--Hekaheka (talk) 05:06, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

RFV discussion: February–March 2016

This entry has survived Wiktionary's verification process (permalink).

Please do not re-nominate for verification without comprehensive reasons for doing so.

---

Suecophile

Lover of Sweden. One possible hit in G.Books; two on Groups, but both by one author. Should apparently be capitalised despite Blotto's move. Equinox ◑ 15:25, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

What's to discuss? The word exists, it's on Wikipedia with references. Lilac pig (talk) 16:51, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't know why CodeCat's reverted the 'move to Suecophile' template, except perhaps we may as well verify it before we move it. Renard Migrant (talk) 17:01, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suecophile Lilac pig (talk) 17:03, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Being on Wikipedia isn't enough. Read WT:CFI please. Equinox ◑ 17:06, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

You mean you cannot see on Wikipedia that the word is sourced there? Lilac pig (talk) 17:16, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Should references be added to the Wiktionary as on Wikipedia? Lilac pig (talk) 17:18, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Suecophile— This unsigned comment was added by Lilac pig (talk • contribs).

• Here are three quotations using the capitalization Suecophile. Two of them are using it as a noun; the other one might be an adjective. "An enthusiastic Suecophile ever since he had served as United States consul in Gothenburg", "Fennophiles and Suecophiles quarreled whether education in the University in Helsinki should be in Finnish or Swedish", "Needless to say, there was a similar Suecophile movement before the WWII in the Swedish-speaking layers of people." —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 20:49, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Two of these are e-mail threads. If they are acceptable as permanently archived quotes, there's no limit to what can be entered into Wiktionary. In BGC there's only one hit, and that's the first of your quotes. --Hekaheka (talk) 21:31, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Debatably, if the adjective 'Suecophile' is unattestable as it seems to be, "Suecophile movement" has to be the noun used attributively doesn't it? I think it's a good workaround for a term that has three citations for in effect the same meaning, but one of the citations is adjectival. Renard Migrant (talk) 00:09, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

PS Usenet right? Renard Migrant (talk) 00:09, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

• OK, my move to uncapitalised may have been wrong. But I'm not actually seeing it anywhere. Zero hits for either version on Google Ngram viewer. Zero terms such as this on Swedish Wiktionary. SemperBlotto (talk) 21:04, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

So you are unable to see the sources provided above? :-/ Anyway, it is not a Swedish word, it is an English word with Latin/Greek roots. So why look at the Swedish Wiktionary? Look at the Latin Wiktionary instead, if there is one. Dammråtta (talk) 23:28, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

The Swedish spelling of the Latin prefix Sueco- is sveko-.Svenska Akademiens Ordbok: Sveko- If you "translate" Suecophile to Swedish, it would be spelled svekofil. Dammråtta (talk) 23:45, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

We rely on quotations not sources. The reason is you can source words that don't exist (Appendix:English dictionary-only terms for example). And we need three citations per definition (not three overall) as otherwise you could add three citations and add a thousand made-up definitions. Renard Migrant (talk) 00:09, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I think I've cited it. It was hard, and I've glossed it "rare". Equinox ◑ 01:26, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Have you really? The debaters in the discussion groups are Finns (like myself btw), who for some reason prefer to write in English. In Finnish there's a word "svekofiili" (probably derived from the Swedish "svekofil") which is currently chiefly used derogatively. I think the debaters have simply anglicized this term, which would make it a protologism. They cannot have checked it in a dictionary, because none of them seems to have an entry for it. --Hekaheka (talk) 06:01, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Please explain why the Swedish-English dictionary from 1964 linked above is not a valid source in your mind. Lilac pig (talk) 07:51, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Renard Migrant said it already: We rely on quotations not sources. Also, in order for a word to be counted as English, it should preferably appear in an English dictionary rather than a Swedish one. Otherwise, it is Swenglish instead of English. --Hekaheka (talk) 08:48, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

You said it didn't seem to exist in dictionaries. This dictionary is not a Swedish dictionary, it is a Swedish-English dictionary showing the English word suecophile. It has nothing to do with so called Swenglish. Lilac pig (talk) 09:50, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

I meant that the referenced dictionary is published in Sweden and edited by Swedes. I was not able to find an English dictionary, published in an English-speaking country, that would have "Suecophile". Thus it appears to be a term that looks like English and would be a perfect English word if the English-speakers just bothered to use it. Judging by the Google hits, Swedophile is a way more common concoction and it seems to be actually used. --Hekaheka (talk) 15:14, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

@Hekaheka: I don't understand your objection to the citations. Is the problem that the writers are non-native English speakers? Or is it something else? —Mr. Granger (talk • contribs) 13:37, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

I said it already: "I think the debaters have simply anglicized this term, which would make it a protologism." If you ask me, it's perfectly allright to be a Finn. If we end up keeping this term, we should add a comment: "Used chiefly in Sweden and Finland by non-native English speakers". --Hekaheka (talk) 15:22, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

For those new to the English Wiktionary: as per WT:ATTEST (part of WT:CFI) and a long-standing practice, we are interested in quotations in actual use and not in dictionaries. We don't trust dictionaries since they sometimes define words that no one uses. As a result, English Wiktionary includes great many words that are not in dictionaries and excludes multiple words that are in dictionaries. We dare to be actual lexicographers. --Dan Polansky (talk) 13:43, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

I try to solve this round:

Etymology

Sueco- +‎ -phile, modeled after Swedish svekofil and/or Finnish svekofiili

Noun

Suecophile

1. (rare) A Swedophile (one who loves Sweden or its people and culture)
   • 1992, "Tuomas Ilmari Viljanen", Swedes in Finland (on newsgroup soc.culture.nordic)

     During the 19th century there were some, and during the 30's, when Fennophiles and Suecophiles quarreled whether education in the University in Helsinki should be in Finnish or Swedish, which ended in a winning draw for both.

   • 1994, Hildor Arnold Barton, A Folk Divided

     An enthusiastic Suecophile ever since he had served as United States consul in Gothenburg during the Civil War, he had in 1870 founded a Swedish settlement in his native Maine, had a Swedish wife, and was fluent in Swedish.

   • 1996, "fleur-de-lis", Sources for Finnish Names.... (on newsgroup sfnet.keskustelu.kieli)

     One half of my family is more or less Finnish and the other half is more or less Swedish. I know damn well the both sides of the coin, and I know both the Fennophile and the Suecophile truth. The objective truth - as usually - lies somewhere in-between.

Usage notes

• This term is chiefly used by Nordic users of English.

--Hekaheka (talk) 08:18, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

"Swedophile" is not a word to be used to describe a Suecophile, since the first is at best a slang term for the latter. Lilac pig (talk) 12:48, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

I'd say both are slang in the sense "language that is unique to a particular profession or subject". It remains a fact that Swedophile gets 50+ hits in BGC whereas Suecophile only gets one. --Hekaheka (talk) 20:03, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

• RFV passed. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 23:22, 13 March 2016 (UTC)