http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=troll&diff=615652&oldid=461313 looks like vandalism. Never seen such a meaning before. Removing it. 220.127.116.11 14:38, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
The article lists two pronunciations. Are both pronunciations equally valid for all the possible meanings of the word, or do the pronunciations have different meanings?SpectrumDT 12:27, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
A more general definition of the neologismEdit
Hey, so I'm pretty intrigued by the idea of a troll (in the internet sense) being a particular sub-genre of comedy not tied to the internet. As in, yes, it's very related to the internet but I don't think the internet is integral to its definition. Think of someone who shows up in the crowd at a protest with a "We have no idea what we're talking about" sign (which I've seen at a town hall recently). I think even streaking is in the same spirit.
My question is, does that seem like such a far-out theory to other people? To explain better what I mean, I'll show the definition I've been working on. It's much more verbose than what the final should be, but I'm just trying to specify exactly what I mean first:
"Misrepresenting oneself in an offensive or disruptive way for the purpose of comedy. The audience for the comedy consists of the "comedian" himself and those in the disrupted community who understand the humor." —This comment was unsigned.
- However much fun your invented definition might be, it's no use to a dictionary documenting the language if you can't find evidence to cite it. Equinox ◑ 01:31, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
- Sorry, let me clarify that I just wanted to put into words a new use I've observed and maybe get feedback about whether this direction is misguided or unrepresentative. The definition isn't fabricated; it's one I've seen in use. But it could be a really limited use. I can't tell.
- So: don't worry, I'm not even thinking of touching the article; just sounding it out. If I were to that point then yeah, I'd be talking about citations. But before I go looking I want to see whether anyone's receptive to the idea at all. FYI I'm new to Wikitionary so just let me know if I've made any faux pas. Qwerty0 06:14, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
Possibly verifying the sense of tending a fireEdit
A w:wp:googletest for "the ancient yuletide carol" shows that in the song Deck the Halls, the phrase is preceded by the verb troll in command form. Could these be related? :)--Thecurran 14:56, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Etym 2, senses 3 & 4 datesEdit
- (fishing) To entice fish with bait; to fish using a line and bait or lures trailed behind a boat. [from circa 1600]
- (intransitive) By extension, to search (for), to draw out, to entice.
Etymonline says that (quote) sense of "to draw on as with a moving bait, entice, allure" is from 1560s.
So I'm wondering: how sure are we that sense 4 is really by extention from sense 3, given that (according to Etymonline anyway) sense 4 predates sense 3?
Thanks--Person12 14:28, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
"Troll" as unwanted posterEdit
Just a note: I've noticed that, beyond the traditional sense of "deliberate Internet troublemaker", the word "troll" has now (to the annoyance of oldbies) been appropriated as an insult to sling at anybody making an unpopular post. e.g. on YouTube you might see a genuine, non-troublemaking comment like "This guy can't play guitar at all; he's way out of tune" dismissed as a "troll" purely for being critical. This will probably end up diluting and broadening the word (which is a pity) so I thought I'd mention it early. Equinox ◑ 23:55, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
"Troll" (internet version) as pejorativeEdit
I know many netizens might disagree with me, but I honestly think that "troll" as a noun describing someone who "trolls" should be labelled pejorative, since the term is often used nowadays to effectively call someone a "dickhead". True, calling someone a troll doesn't have to be used in the pejorative sense, but neither does "dickhead". And "troll" certainly isn't being used commonly as a term of endearment. Whether the internet as a whole is generally full of more rude behaviour than real life is irrelevant too. And there's simply too much misuse of the term, or gratuitous use of it, to deem it appropriate in many cases. Any way to "back this up", since I'd change the definition but it's not like I'm laden with evidence other than being a netizen and seeing how terms like "troll" are used. Also, Equinox's section about "Troll as an unwanted poster" seems to have similar significance Ceigered 10:05, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
"Troll" etym. 2, sense 7 needs citation?Edit
I'm certain I've heard this sense used in both real life and on internet forums. I use sense seven myself in colloquial speech with my friends. The problem is, I can't find anywhere where I can quote this sense from at the moment. Any solid contibution for a cited quotation would be great. Thank you. --SoundSynthesis. A lover of many things strange and nerdy 21:05, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
As of current viewing the 8th and 9th definitions pertaining to "internet slang":
- "intransitive" In an online community or discussion, (to post inflammatory material so as) to attempt to lure others into combative argument for purposes of personal entertainment and/or gratuitous disruption.
- "transitive" By extension, to incite anger (outside of an internet context); to provoke, harass or annoy.
I went and looked up these terms as they pertain to classifying verbs since I didn't know what they meant...
- transitive: requires one or more objects
- (eg I kick the ball)
- intransitive: not taking a direct object
- For example, the verb listen does not usually take a direct object; one cannot say *"I listened the ball".
I believe that some examples would serve in illustrating the transitive difference here, as I don't think the definitions adequately focus on doing so. For example:
- Calculator trolls Oracle on the internet
- Calculator trolls on the internet
There is a conflict in the transitive definition too. It has an "outside of an internet context" disclaimer, yet still has the "Internet slang" label out in front of it. How does this mesh?
I find both overly narrow. Although popularized on the internet and initially used pertaining to discussions there, this describes the place of origin but not the substance of its definition. I think we are mistaking "pizza is invented in Italy and popular there" with "pizza is only made in Italy".
Unless some source exists specifying exclusive-Internet usage of the term, I think we should downgrade this exclusive definition to "especially on the Internet" rather than requiring "in an online community" or conversely "outside of an Internet".
The verb 'to troll' can be used both transitively and intransitively on and off of the internet. It is wrong to speak as if intransitive use exclusively means Interneet and that transitive use exclusively means non-Internet. Etym (talk) 14:17, 11 August 2014 (UTC)