Reconstruction talk:Proto-Slavic/čьto
Latest comment: 3 years ago by 37.47.237.29 in topic ťo (kto)
Wrong genealogy, West Slavic languages forms co, čo are discendants of čь, like croatian ča.
- Why do you say that? —CodeCat 00:39, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- Probably that West South Slavic nominative singular forms, as well as Čakavian Serbo-Croatian ča, are from čь not čьto. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 09:56, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- Czech, Slovak, Polish rarely lost t, d... or some other consonants, but have shifts form c to č, from t to ć..., so it would be more logical that co, čo are descendants of čь.
- Not to me. ь normally disappears in the Slavic languages, so it would have become čto. I don't see how the awkward combination čt could not have been simplified to c or č, just like it was simplified to št in Russian and Serbo-Croatian. —CodeCat 14:28, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- It appears that nominoaccusative form in Lechitic was taken from the genitive čьso/česo (recored Old Czech čso > co through analogical leveling with the word čest; Polish czso > cso > co). Normal reflex of čь has been preserved in compounds, and there are no traces of čьto. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 15:37, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- Just in case, both variations should stand. Slavić (talk) 22:39, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- It appears that nominoaccusative form in Lechitic was taken from the genitive čьso/česo (recored Old Czech čso > co through analogical leveling with the word čest; Polish czso > cso > co). Normal reflex of čь has been preserved in compounds, and there are no traces of čьto. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 15:37, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- Not to me. ь normally disappears in the Slavic languages, so it would have become čto. I don't see how the awkward combination čt could not have been simplified to c or č, just like it was simplified to št in Russian and Serbo-Croatian. —CodeCat 14:28, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
- Czech, Slovak, Polish rarely lost t, d... or some other consonants, but have shifts form c to č, from t to ć..., so it would be more logical that co, čo are descendants of čь.
- Probably that West South Slavic nominative singular forms, as well as Čakavian Serbo-Croatian ča, are from čь not čьto. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 09:56, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
ťo (kto) edit
Looks like that some descendants are from ťo (< kto < kьto?). What do you think? —Игорь Телкачь 17:38, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
- Read the text above. It was česo > čьso > čso > co, and there are Old Czech & Old Polish texts to attest to that. It's phonetically unremarkable, although it's unexpected that a variant of genitive should displace nominative and accusative (perhaps it started in the accusative, seeing how the accusative alternates with the genitive in affirmative vs negative sentences). 37.47.237.29 08:49, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
Apparently, it's also Old East Slavic: чьто (čĭto), directly from Proto-Slavic or from Old Church Slavonic. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 08:11, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
It was čemu, and česomu - Old Church Slavinic form
- Never heard about česomu, but it's imaginable as a contamination. Still, čemu should be given along with it. 37.47.237.29 08:43, 4 May 2021 (UTC)