User talk:CodeCat

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Thread titleRepliesLast modified
Phonetic changes922:31, 4 December 2016
PIE links207:08, 4 December 2016
Regex code122:16, 29 November 2016
MewBot122:39, 25 November 2016
Proto-Nawiki600:11, 16 November 2016
use of ~117:27, 15 November 2016
Module:ny-IPA520:43, 12 November 2016
Category:pt:Ancient cities016:03, 11 November 2016
Catalan past participle forms116:40, 10 November 2016
Origin of short "e" in {{l|la|dēierō}}101:41, 6 November 2016
Giving function arguments in templates 600:33, 6 November 2016
From, equivalent to compound114:56, 5 November 2016
template:label - categorisation206:08, 5 November 2016
Can you check a P-Gmc. reconstruction I made?217:29, 26 October 2016
Gloywos504:34, 26 October 2016
Why?421:26, 25 October 2016
PIE root shapes619:02, 24 October 2016
The i is not barred011:23, 22 October 2016
Inheritance from Koine217:37, 20 October 2016
pronunciations at bezie013:34, 20 October 2016
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Phonetic changes

I'd like to read up more on phonetic changes that happen in every language, such as uvular fricative ʁ often becoming velar fricative ɣ. Is there a list of common or inevitable sound changes?

UtherPendrogn (talk)17:23, 3 November 2016

No change is absolutely inevitable, nor is any change absolutely impossible. There's only general tendencies and changes that are common or rare. I don't know if there's a list anywhere, it comes down to experience really.

CodeCat17:26, 3 November 2016

I see, thanks for the answer! I'm asking this since, for fun (and to try and understand linguistics better without a formal education in it outside of High School) I've started up a conlang (constructed language, if you're unfamiliar) which is essentially "Future French". I'm trying to figure out what changes may happen to the phonemes involved. French is my second mother-tongue, so I understand a lot of why it's like it is now (the circumflex accent comes from doubled vowels or a vowel followed by s like baston > bâton and roole > rôle, but I'm at a disadvantage when coming up with future sound changes given I have no background in linguistics.

UtherPendrogn (talk)17:29, 3 November 2016

If you want examples of weird sound changes, try Armenian. In particularly, the development of the word for "two".

CodeCat17:27, 3 November 2016

Thanks, I'll check it out. Haplology interests me quite a bit, and also sound reversals (comfortably becoming "comfrtbly" and thridd becoming "third").

UtherPendrogn (talk)17:31, 3 November 2016

Metathesis that's called.

CodeCat17:41, 3 November 2016

Right, thanks!

UtherPendrogn (talk)18:04, 3 November 2016

@UtherPendrogn I would base the future French conlang on nowadays youth talk. You can listen to the basic explanation (examples from American US) in this audio (and read it here, but notice that they do not say exactly the same, and it's not only the order what changes), by James Harbeck. I hope you not to be dismayed when knowing that the future, like the past, can't be predicted (audio or text). Other source could be even modern dialects.

Sobreira ►〓 (parlez)07:05, 4 December 2016

Are we interested in transforming this into this (saving errors), or at least including the links? I would also order the descendant languages always in the same way (typological, code or English name).

Sobreira ►〓 (parlez)00:35, 4 December 2016

I don't find the descendants particularly useful. They're only a click away, in the entry of the word.

CodeCat00:48, 4 December 2016

Well, not all the PIE forms exist.

Sobreira ►〓 (parlez)07:08, 4 December 2016

Regex code

Hi CodeCat, you see this code below, gives this template here (yes, I know, the facts are incorrect):


Is it possible to make a regex code to find anything in this template language, but to include multiple pronunciations and also include the parenthesis ()? I've only discovered from Wyang to find only one prounciation and with no parenthesis:



AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我22:10, 29 November 2016

it should match above

AWESOME meeos * (「欺负」我22:16, 29 November 2016

Hi, is MewBot still running? What is the expected time to edit after feeding the bot a word? Just curious. I tested the bot with verschrikkelijk after I made the comparative myself, so I was waiting to see if the superlative and other forms would be created by the bot... Thanks!

Azertus (talk)22:38, 25 November 2016

I haven't been running the inflection script for a long time now.

CodeCat22:39, 25 November 2016


Could you please add a Proto-Nawiki language, perhaps nwk-pro? We have quite a few reconstructions in the paper, and others. Thanks, CodeCat.

Victar (talk)21:32, 14 November 2016

I don't think CodeCat can add codes. Also, we have a system in place for how new codes are assigned; I think this would have to be awk-nwk-pro. (Right, @-sche?)

Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds21:54, 14 November 2016

Thanks for the reply, @Metaknowledge. awk-nwk-pro? Isn't that like gem-frk-pro or ine-gem-pro?

Victar (talk)22:11, 14 November 2016

The difference is that, unless I'm mistaken, nwk is something you just made up, whereas gem is from the ISO.

Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds22:13, 14 November 2016

Ah I see. Well, I based it on the paper linked above, which uses PNWK for Proto-Nawiki.

Victar (talk)22:28, 14 November 2016

Is the use of "*bʰér-ti-s ~ *bʰr̥-téy-s" in Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/bʰer- a sort of enunciation of NOMINATIVE ~ GENITIVE for Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/bʰértis.

Sobreira ►〓 (parlez)17:26, 15 November 2016

Yes. The main purpose is to show the alternation in the stem as a result of ablaut, since many times the descendants preserve the genitive stem rather than the nominative stem.

CodeCat17:27, 15 November 2016

Could you help me with this? I don't really understand the rules for the testcases that are currently failing.

DTLHS (talk)20:02, 12 November 2016

Where are the testcases?

CodeCat20:03, 12 November 2016


Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds20:04, 12 November 2016

Just a hunch but, did you normalise the text to NFC before returning it? This combines diacritics with the characters before them, when possible. I found that while MediaWiki does this to the page content when you save a page, Lua doesn't do it.

CodeCat20:06, 12 November 2016

Actually, never mind that. I see the problems. There's ˈ expected but .ˈ in the output.

CodeCat20:07, 12 November 2016

That's not the only problem, though.

Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds20:43, 12 November 2016

I believe that either you or @Ungoliant MMDCCLXIV edited MOD:place so that the category in question is populated yet uncreated. Please deal with it.

kc_kennylau (talk)16:03, 11 November 2016

Catalan past participle forms

declarats, declarades, declarada

DTLHS (talk)16:24, 10 November 2016

How is this? I adjusted the entries, and also declarat.

CodeCat16:40, 10 November 2016

Origin of short "e" in {{l|la|dēierō}}

In this edit, you said, "The e is due to contamination between periūrō(swear falsely) and peierō(worsen)." Why?

kc_kennylau (talk)01:39, 6 November 2016

The e certainly can't be original. The explanation I added is from De Vaan.

CodeCat01:41, 6 November 2016

Giving function arguments in templates

Hey cat, could you help me out with this template? User:Crom_daba/sh-noun

I'm trying to pass "noun" as the first argument to head_t in Module:User:Crom_daba/sh-headword along with other arguments that might be added when calling {{User:Crom daba/sh-noun}}, but clearly the template behaves the same as User:Crom_daba/sh-head as can be seen here. I'm guessing that my understanding of Module:parameters is faulty, how could I achieve this behaviour in the easiest way?

Crom daba (talk)21:15, 5 November 2016

It looks to me like you're duplicating {{head}}. Why?

CodeCat21:16, 5 November 2016

To automatize entering Serbo-Croatian transliteration, the bane of my existence.

Crom daba (talk)23:20, 5 November 2016

That doesn't seem like a very effective way of doing it. Why would you have to duplicate the whole template just for that?

CodeCat23:22, 5 November 2016

I would recommend looking at Module:sl-headword. Slovene has no transliterations, but many other aspects, such as the need to always provide an accented headword, are the same. I wrote the module some time ago and would probably do some things different now, but it's a start. I may actually bring it up to standard soon, and then you can take your code from it and adapt it to Serbo-Croatian.

CodeCat23:41, 5 November 2016

Because we need it done in the headword, and we need to transliterate in both directions, reworking {{head}} to handle this with through its normal transliteration mechanisms would be impractical.

As for writing the module, I just want it to function the same as the old template system for now, until we figure out what inflectional information we want to require in the headword.

The concrete problem I have is why {{User:Crom daba/sh-noun|head=gòblēn}}, which is defined as {{#invoke:User:Crom_daba/sh-headword|head_t|nouns}}, won't function the same as {{User:Crom daba/sh-head|nouns|head=head=gòblēn}} but rather as {{User:Crom daba/sh-head|head=head=gòblēn}}.

Crom daba (talk)00:24, 6 November 2016

Can you not just use the tr= parameter of {{head}}?

CodeCat00:33, 6 November 2016

From, equivalent to compound

(cur | prev) 14:34, 5 November 2016‎ CodeCat (talk | contribs)‎ . . (330 bytes) (-55)‎ . . (undo | thank)

You used this exact form for several other Brythonic entries. From (Proto-Celtic compound word), equivalent to (proto-brythonic) + (proto-brythonic). What's wrong with it?

UtherPendrogn (talk)14:48, 5 November 2016

The problem is that it isn't a compound word. A compound word consists of two independent words that are combined, but that isn't the case here.

CodeCat14:56, 5 November 2016

template:label - categorisation

  • Using "archaic"" - places the term in "Category:Lang terms with archaic senses"
  • Using "obsolete"" - places the term in "Category:Lang terms with obsolete senses"
  • Whereas "dated"" - places the term in "Category:Lang dated terms"

Is this correct behaviour? It seems illogical.

Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk11:09, 4 November 2016

You can propose to change it.

CodeCat13:01, 4 November 2016

That's what I was doing - in a roundabout way :)

Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk06:08, 5 November 2016

Can you check a P-Gmc. reconstruction I made?

For the second element of 𐍆𐌰𐌹𐌷𐌿𐌲𐌴𐌹𐍂𐍉. I think that would be the correct Proto-Germanic form. Want to be sure tho, as I nommed it for FWOTD.

Kleio (t · c)19:52, 22 October 2016

I'm not sure about the German and Dutch cognates. You'd expect gier- in Dutch and geier- in German.

CodeCat20:16, 22 October 2016

I removed them for now, I thought Koebler listed them as cognates but he merely lists Gier as a translation, not a cognate.

Kleio (t · c)17:29, 26 October 2016

Are you saying Matasović is wrong in having Gloywos and not Gloiwos? UtherPendrogn (talk) 14:01, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

UtherPendrogn (talk)14:01, 18 October 2016

We just had a discussion at the talk page of WT:ACEL, where we decided to denote diphthongs as oi, ai, ou etc. This is nothing but a spelling change, but you'll need to convert Matasović's notation to ours from now on whenever you create entries.

CodeCat14:02, 18 October 2016
Not much of a discussion if not everyone is involved.
UtherPendrogn (talk)14:27, 18 October 2016

Your inability to keep track of this project is not our fault.

JohnC514:42, 18 October 2016

She pinged three people. That's not my fault, I don't go to obscure pages, especially if I'm not pinged.

UtherPendrogn (talk)10:26, 25 October 2016

The talk page of WT:ACEL is the designated place for discussing treatment of Proto-Celtic. You should add it (and WT:ACEL-BRY) to your watchlist, rather than waiting for people to ping you

Chuck Entz (talk)04:34, 26 October 2016


(cur | prev) 20:29, 25 October 2016‎ CodeCat (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (6,914 bytes) (-32)‎ . . (Reverted edits by UtherPendrogn. If you think this rollback is in error, please leave a message on my talk page.) (undo | thank)

It's an a-stem, so why?

UtherPendrogn (talk)20:44, 25 October 2016

I don't trust you. I'd rather have Anglom do it.

CodeCat20:45, 25 October 2016

My translation was correct. I'm reporting this as vandalism.

UtherPendrogn (talk)21:08, 25 October 2016


CodeCat21:25, 25 October 2016

Glad you take your vandalism so seriously.

UtherPendrogn (talk)21:26, 25 October 2016

PIE root shapes

I was reading through cat:Proto-Indo-European irregular-shape roots and I noticed *wreyḱ-, *wreyt-, *mlewH-, and *mreǵʰ- are considered irregular. According to w:Proto-Indo-European root#Sonority hierarchy, these should be considered legal, and LIV certainly has many such roots. Should we change over to a classification system that distinguishes R and M?

JohnC502:23, 24 October 2016

I'd prefer a system that distinguishes them only in these particular cases, ml, mr, wl, wr. We currently already do this with s: *sed- is just considered CeC, but *speḱ- is sCeC.

CodeCat14:27, 24 October 2016

So, what would be your proposed change? mReC and wReC?

JohnC518:13, 24 October 2016

A capital M seems better, so we can group them all together.

CodeCat18:36, 24 October 2016

Sounds good to me! Could I entreat you to make this change?

JohnC518:38, 24 October 2016


CodeCat18:49, 24 October 2016

The i is not barred

Proto-Celtic ū gives an unbarred i. It would only be close central unrounded if there was an a before it, giving Proto-Celtic axt.

UtherPendrogn (talk)11:23, 22 October 2016

Inheritance from Koine

Are you the person to ask? {{inh}} does not accept "grc-koi" as an argument - neither does {{m}} although {{etyl}} does. Is it possible to show inheritance from Koine - but Ancient Greek should be the language linked. Thanks

Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk15:01, 20 October 2016

It works for me.

CodeCat15:35, 20 October 2016

aaaaa! I was using Greek characters - "grc-κοι" not "grc-koi" - sorry I bothered you!

Saltmarshσυζήτηση-talk17:37, 20 October 2016

pronunciations at bezie

Sorry to bother you with this, but I couldn't get the .ogg file at bezie to work. Would you mind putting it under the right etymology? Tia.

Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk)13:34, 20 October 2016
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