Reconstruction talk:Proto-Slavic/nebo

I think Vasmer is misunderstood here. Russian Wiktionary describes it better, which makes more sense to me. "небо" also existed in Old East Slavic, "нёбо" is mentioned as colloquial. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:55, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

But how could they both be directly inherited? "небо" doesn't fit the sound laws, "нёбо" does. That speaks for external influence at least. Maybe it's not a direct borrowing, but it certainly seems like it was at least "prevented" from developing naturally through CS influence. —CodeCat 00:21, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Why "небо" doesn't fit the sound laws? Do you think that Russian doesn't have native words stressed on "е́" where Prot-Slavic has "e"? The current etymology tree suggests that Russian is a younger language, compared to others, including Belarusian and Ukrainian. I think all East Slavic languages should show direct derivations from Proto-Slavic via Old East Slavic небо (nebo). Listing both Russian нёбо and небо derived from orv would be more correct. BTW, Belarusian has нёба (njóba, “palate”) and in Ukrainian не́бо (nébo) mean both "sky" and "palate". --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:37, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

In Russian, older е becomes ё when it is not followed by a soft consonant. The б is not a soft consonant, so the change applies, as is shown by "нёбо". The word "небо" doesn't fit and must therefore have another origin. The same applies to the Belarusian form as well, "нёба" must be the inherited form while "не́ба" is newer. —CodeCat 00:47, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

You must also keep in mind that the form "небо" must have been (and probably still is) very frequently heard in a religious context. This makes it a prime candidate for Church Slavonic influence. And CS doesn't pronounce ё (according to Wikipedia), always е. So it's almost certain that нёбо is the original form that was inherited from Proto-Slavic directly, and used among everyday people, while небо is the more religiously-tinted form. —CodeCat 00:51, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

IIRC the change Proto-Slavic *e > Russian ё is only true when *e was accented in that environment, otherwise *e > Russian е. (also for older /e/ coming from vocalized yer such as the "dog" word). Since this was a mobile accent paradigm noun (nom. sg. *nȅbo, but plural *nebesa̍ - see reflexes of plural in Serbo-Croatian and East Slavic), it's possible that both are correct, one reflecting nom. sg. and the other reanalyzed from the oblique stem *nebes-. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 01:05, 4 December 2013 (UTC)