User talk:Kutchkutch/mr-conj

@Kutchkutch Since the Punjabi conjugation table is complete, I have started a Marathi one at MOD:mr-verb, T:mr-conj based on this information. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 02:18, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@AryamanA: Wow! Thanks a lot for noticing and starting the implementation of this!

I understand that you're busy, so I wasn't sure whether to ping you. I've been observing your work on Punjabi conjugation, and wanted to start a framework for Marathi conjugation. It's certainly interesting to make comparisons and observe the differences.

Since I'm {{User python-1}} I do look at Modules and try to make sense of them. Kutchkutch (talk) 09:25, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Given my own knowledge of Punjabi I felt comfortable starting the module on my own. Now that we have a good overview of the Marathi forms, I definitely think the module is doable! I am also on winter break for the rest of the month (most universities in the US have given a longer break to prepare for handling the virus as they allow a few students back on campus) so I'll definitely get this and mr-decl done. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 18:17, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

I actually have a question. Do Hindi "मैं करता हूँ" and "मैं कर रहा हूँ" both map to Marathi "मी करतो आहे"? Hindi "मैं करता था", "मैं कर रहा था" → Marathi "मी करत होतो"? —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 18:58, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

@AryamanA: In most contexts:

"मैं करता हूँ" → "मी करतो"

"मैं कर रहा हूँ" → "मी करतो आहे"

"मैं कर रहा था" → "मी करत होतो".

However, there are contexts in which the distinction between the habitual and present progressive is muddled.

The habitual ["मी करतो"] can be used to announce an action that one is about to perform.

{{R:mr:Berntsen-Nimbkar 1982|184}}

After looking at a number of items in a shop, a customer says "I'll take this one." While English uses the future in this situation, Marathi uses मी घेतो (1st person sg masc) / मी घेते (1st person sg fem) [with the verb घेणे (gheṇe) in the habitual].

The concept of progressive [in the present progressive "मी करतो आहे"] can expanded so much in some cases that it may overlap with the habitual.

{{R:mr:Berntsen-Nimbkar 1982|323}}

In such cases the present progressive is used almost interchangeably with the habitual. Note the two sentences below:

सुधीर हल्ली काय [करतो आहे]? What's Sudhir doing these days?

सुधीर काय [करतो]? What does Sudhir do?

Logically speaking, there is little difference between these two sentences. However, they are not completely equivalent. The first implies that the speaker knows Sudhir and simply wants to update his information. The second question does not imply any prior information; it is the question of a stranger (Note that the English sentences show the same distinction of meaning)

With some forms, there exists a distinction between colloquial and formal forms (similar to the phonological distinction at T:mr-word-final-schwa). After I make this distinction clearer at User:Kutchkutch/mr-conj, it would be helpful to show this at T:mr-conj. Kutchkutch (talk) 11:48, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kutchkutch: Okay great, thank you for the explanations! I believe the best way to treat the various -तो-type forms (habitual + progressive) then is to group them under the imperfective aspect. This can contrast with the -लो-type forms which can be called perfective. I'll have two sections in the table for these. —Aryaman^{A (मुझसे बात करें • योगदान)} 00:31, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

@AryamanA: That sounds fine to me. Each resource uses slightly different terminology. Kutchkutch (talk) 13:11, 6 January 2021 (UTC)