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प्रणामEdit

When Ataturk Turkified his native Turkish language by replacing the Arabic and Persian borrowings with native Turkish terms, he was acclaimed as a hero and the father of the Turks. When Dravidian nationalists attempt to purge loanwords in Tamil that originate from the Aryan and "foreign" Sanskrit and replace them with native Dravidian words, it is also lauded.

Yet, when the Hindi language tries to rid itself of Arabic and Persian foreign vocabulary, it is termed as "unnatural", it is ridiculed and called names. Why? How is it unnatural for a language to have words that originate natively in place of words that have been borrowed from some foreign, non related language of the invaders? Thanks. -- 157.33.186.106 08:16, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

@157.33.186.106: Hindi should focus its efforts on ridding itself of English vocabulary. Arabic and Persian have earned their place, removing them is counterproductive. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 00:59, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
The only component of the vocabulary of any tongue that I utterly loathe are the learned borrowings (as in Indo-Aryan, Romance etc.), and I loathe those inasmuch as those are unnatural loans, having been ripped off from manuscripts and not come through the process of historical contact. On the other hand, I have a lot of admiration for inherited as well as substrate words. And as for the naturally borrowed terms, I do not mind them as long as the inherited words are not supplanted. So, this user is indeed a misled one. —Lbdñk (talk) 09:16, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Template:hi-IPAEdit

Hi, I am adding {{hi-IPA}} to some words I heard pronounced. How accurate is the template when it produces the right number and position of syllables but there is no stress? I mean is /t͡ʃəp.pəl/ close for चप्पल (cappal) with two shwas? Is it purely phonemic? --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 10:19, 2 January 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev: Stress has not been implemented yet. I will get around to it this year (quite busy recently with university applications). Otherwise it is accurate. /ˈt͡ʃəp.pəl/ is the actual pronunciation with stress. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 00:47, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
I was under impression that stressed "a" is not pronounced as /ə/. OK, great. Basically, it seems the module works fine then, it's just the stress is missing. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 06:43, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
@Atitarev: There might be a difference phonetically but Hindi speakers do not distinguish the two phonemically. I'll have to look into that if we ever get around to adding phonetic transcriptions. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 16:16, 4 January 2020 (UTC)

Sudh hindi wordsEdit

Pranam Prabhuji, i was reading something like a index of words that you contributed "Hindi terms derived from Sanskrit", and i found really great. I am very found of ancient Sanskrit scriptures, and now days i live in India and i am learning hindi language, mainly my interest is in pure hindi words. Where can i find a big amount of Hindi words derived from Sanskrit with possibly English transliteration? GouraKrsna (talk) 05:30, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

@GouraKrsna: Please no need to call me prabhuji, I definitely don't deserve that much respect :). Shuddh Hindi words would be found in Category:Hindi terms borrowed from Sanskrit. Transliterations are available on each entry individually, but thus far not on the list. If you would like I can write a script that grabs all the relevant info. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 04:10, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Ok :). Yes, but i don't know so much about scripts... But may be easy to handle. I just need to be able to see the English transliteration and copy, then i will make a relevant vocabulary list. GouraKrsna (talk) 05:49, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

To open each entry individually would not be possible. Because its huge like a dictionary, and my time now days it is really short. Would be great to have something easily accessible. GouraKrsna (talk) 05:54, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

News from the Tremendous Wiktionary User GroupEdit

Hello!

I let you this message because you are part of the (very dynamic) Tremendous Wiktionary User Group!

As the process of name change is ongoing for the Wikimedia Foundation, I invite you to participate to a collective opinion from the user group. There is also a proposal for a communique directed to the WMF. You are welcome to discuss it too. I imagine you may also express your opinion through other canals but your inputs are still welcome! Thank you in advance!   Noé 15:41, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Phonetic transcription on the Module:hi-IPAEdit

From what I know, êhê and ôhô are allophonic changes in the standard dialect and most varieties. They are in no way phonemic. Therefore, your reasoning that the transcription isn't phonetic is incorrect. RonnieSingh (talk) 02:10, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

@RonnieSingh: Are you sure they're allophonic? I have never heard anyone actually say kah(a)nā for kêh(ê)nā, for instance. And I think Hindi speakers are internally aware that êhê != aha. For example, the formal pronunciation of वह and the word वहन might be minimal pairs in that regard. And anyways, the rest of the module is not phonetic at all, it doesn't show e.g. assimilation of च्च to [tːʃ]. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 15:38, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure you understand the concept of allophony. The phonemic sequence schwa-h-schwa or just schwa-h directly turns into êh(ê). This is it's phonetic realisation. [ɛ], [ɐ] and [ə] are allophones (different realisations) of the same phonological unit /ə/. And there are Bihari speakers who pronounce śahar as [ʃə.ɦəɾ]. It's a regional realisation where the allophony does not exist. /ɛ/ as a separate phoneme from /ə/ only exists in English words, that too in posh accents. Vah is pronoun as vêh and vahan as vêhên in Standard Hindi. And if the rest of the module isn't phonetic, there's no point including these allophones in it and showing them as phonemic. RonnieSingh (talk) 16:52, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

@RonnieSingh: Okay, since we are not consistently using a phonetic transcription, then it does not make sense to include either of the êhê/ôhô. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 21:52, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Also the êh and ôh RonnieSingh (talk) 18:41, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Breaking link from अयं to 𑀅𑀅𑀁Edit

So that Pali words can be looked up in script by common citations forms as well as their stems, I have just broken this link. It doesn't seem right to use 𑀅𑀅𑀁 for morphological information about Devanagari script forms. --RichardW57 (talk) 16:33, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Module:number list/data/hiEdit

Could you check the recent edits to this module? I noticed several module errors in Hindi number entries. At first I thought it was due to the English IP who does mass edits of pronunciation sections, but then I noticed it was the number list templates. I finally traced it back to a series of 30 edits that User:Gotitbro made to this module.

Not knowing any Hindi (aside from Devanagari I picked up three decades ago from Sanskrit at UCLA), I have no clue if they make sense, but I spotted at least one case where the new spelling is a redirect because you moved the page to its current spelling back in 2016.

At any rate, I don't know what the solution is, but I figured you might. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 05:23, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Most of my edits were spelling variants to the more common ones, the edits are numerous as I had to check each entry against those in published dicts. I also took help from fr:Annexe:Nombres en hindi (which was more accurate) for adding unlisted ordinal numbers. I can't see any errors in the module, please point me to what you are seeing. Gotitbro (talk) 05:32, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
The problem isn't so much with the accuracy of the content, but with the fact that it doesn't match what's in the entries. The idea of such a module is to allow entries to easily link to the previous and next entries in the sequence. If an entry isn't in the data, the module has no way to know where to link to in the entry itself, and it won't link to it from other entries.
As for the module errors: those are in the entries, not in the module itself. Whenever you edit a module, you need to monitor Category:Pages with module errors (CAT:E for short) for several days to spot problems. There are currently 3 Hindi entries there.
As it is, either the entries are going to need to be changed to reflect the module or the module is going to need to be changed to reflect the entries. The decision as to which of those two things to do is a judgment call that requires knowledge of both the language and the module, and should be worked out within the community of Hindi editors. That's why I decided to bring Aryaman in on this. Chuck Entz (talk) 13:49, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
@Chuck Entz, Gotitbro: Yes, the moves to chandrabindu by Gotitbro were perfectly correct and I've gone ahead and moved the pages in CAT:E. Gotitbro generally has been a helpful editor and I'm happy to see someone fixing up the neglected portions of Hindi :) I'm becoming gradually more active so hopefully we can continue that. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 21:17, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
I was never worried about his knowledge of Hindi or his good intentions- I've been patrolling his edits since the beginning and I generally don't bother checking them anymore. My concern was about his understanding of the technical aspects and of community consensus. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:02, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
@Chuck Entz: Of course, that was certainly the right thing to do; thank you for bringing it to my attention. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 03:06, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Misplaced Aspects/Moods in Hindi Conjugation TableEdit

First, let me put this link here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VhG_4KK4FejIYmYsspxnKjic4-gtOeKv__nN8AyvyCU/edit?usp=sharing Refer to the spreadsheet in this link to understand what corrections I am talking about below.I have written down the whole corrected conjugation table in the spreadsheet.

I noticed that there are many verb aspects that are misplaced in the conjugation table of Hindi. Hindi has 3 aspects (progressive, habitual and perfective) and 5 moods (indicative, presumptive, subjunctive, contrafactual, and imperative). But, not all moods are shown in the table and the ones which are shown, among them some are placed wrongly in the table. For example,

  • In the imperfective aspect (which I recommend that it be renamed to «habitual» because «imperfective» is a general term under which habitual is a subterm, and this -ta ending doesn't convey the meaning of the imperfective in general), there are two «present» forms shown, in the first present form what is shown is the contrafactual mood of the non-aspectual forms and it is not the aspectual form. The correction would be renaming «present» to «contrafactual». So, for example, मरता should be written in the non-aspectual forms and in the imperfective forms it should be corrected to मरता होता instead.
  • In the «continuous» aspect section, the name «continuous» should be corrected to «progressive» because «continuous» & «progressive» aspects are two different aspects and they convey different ideas, but however, in English, they are the same, and maybe that's the cause of this confusion. रहा in hindi conveys the progressive aspect and not the continuous Also, there is no contrafactual mood written in this section. It should be added. Example of progressive aspect: «पहन रहा है» and example of continuous aspect «पहना हुआ है». Note that both translate to «he is wearing.» in English, and it is the source of confusion I was talking about.
  • Future subjunctive forms are missing for all the aspects in the table. I have written down all in a google sheets page which I am sharing here. You can refer to that and change the conjugation table on wiktionary.
  • Impersonal forms are also wrongly labelled. For example, there are not 4 infinitives in Hindi, it's the infinitive participle which has 4 forms. There are just 2 forms of the infinitive in Hindi, direct and the oblique form (gerund). I'll show by examples:

1. मैं बोलना चाहता हूँ। (direct form of infinitive)

2. मैं खेलने जा रहा हूँ। (oblique form of Infinitive)


You can make any such sentence where the pronoun is in the nominative/direct case and infinitive will always be either ending in ना and ने and never नी & नीं because these here are true infinitives and not participles. Whenever the dative pronoun is used the infinitive acts like a participle and hence giving a wrong idea that there are 4 infinitives in Hindi.

1. मुझे ये चीज़ करनी है।

2. मुझे नाचना है।

3. उसे उसकी चीज़ें देनी नहीं हैं

4. आपको काफ़ी काम करने हैं।


It is the dative case that allows the use of infinitive as a participle.

Itsmeyash31 (talk) 20:41, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

@Itsmeyash31: Thank you so much for the table and the explanations. I think it is time to, first of all, use a Lua module as the backend for the table instead of fixing the current hacky system of templates (which I have revamped completely several times). I'll be starting that at Module:hi-conj and will try to have a working full table in a week. I'm a bit busy with other things, but this will be done. Please keep updating me with any other issues you spot, I'll ping you once I have an idea of how the code should look like as a start. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 20:52, 19 July 2020 (UTC)

Origin of ਦੱਸਣਾEdit

Hi, do you know the origin of the Punjabi word ਦੱਸਣਾ? —⁠This unsigned comment was added by 2409:4042:81e:5f5c::1c2b:40a0 (talk).

@User:2409:4042:81e:5f5c::1c2b:40a0 Yes! It's ultimately from Sanskrit दर्शयति (darśayati, to show). I've added some more information to the entry Punjabi ਦੱਸਣਾ (dassaṇā). —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 15:45, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Hello, its me again. I forgot to follow up on this and thanks a lot for giving the additional information on that word. I have one more request, I am visiting wiktionary now to list down some words because now I am writing the dialogues for a Hindi play where I want to avoid hi fi Shuddh Hindi words and also no Urdu words. I'm prefering poetic words like साँझ for evening, रैन for night, बरखा for rain etc. Just like ਦੱਸਣਾ which is originally दर्शयति but has changed in pronounciation. Typing every word in wiktionary and looking for its origin will be very difficult so for Hindi is there a specific page here that has a list of all Hindi words originating in Sanskrit but which underwent change in spelling and sound? User:2409:4042:81e:5f5c::1c2b:40a0
@User:2409:4042:81e:5f5c::1c2b:40a0 There is CAT:Hindi terms inherited from Sanskrit. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 13:41, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Invitation to affiliate members to complete a survey about WMF wide Universal Code of ConductEdit

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Pravachan in Prakrit!Edit

Check this out. This dude is actually speaking Prakrit! XD (Can't post a direct link to youtube because it triggers a spam filter for some reason).

In the beginning he says something to the effect of "Sanskrit is very difficult/rigid". I think he's speaking Maharashtri because of the fact that it's a Jain pravachan but then in the video he also uses the word "hodi" - presumably to mean "becomes". This sounds like Shauraseni rather than Maharashtri. Anyway just thought you'd find it interesting. -- Bhagadatta (talk) 03:06, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Also @Kutchkutch -- Bhagadatta (talk) 03:07, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: Thanks for the ping. I've seen this video. It's very interesting since it's perhaps the only video of someone speaking in Prakrit. This organisation has several Prakrit resources. Like most Prakrit resources, it appears to acknowledge that there are more than one Prakrit lects, but may not always specify which lect is used. Also, they seem to reconstruct (ʻcoinʼ) a lot words based on the known sound laws without specifying which words are attested and which are reconstructed. Kutchkutch (talk) 06:18, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
@Kutchkutch: Yeah, it appears to be the only video of Prakrit being spoken. I've been trying to discern some words from what he speaks to create lemmas on this project. Too bad he switches to Hindi midway. By the way, did you notice he says (in Prakrit) in the beginning that "Prakrit is soft and smooth like a woman and Sanskrit is rigid and hard like a man"? One doesn't need to know Prakrit to understand that part. Ha ha. Wonder how well that comment went down. -- Bhagadatta (talk) 06:28, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
@Bhagadatta, Kutchkutch: This is so cool! I noticed that he's saying 𑀧𑀇𑀅 (païa) not 𑀧𑀉𑀅 (paüa). I think Jain Maharasthri is slightly different from regular Maharashtri, at least Pischel lists it separately. And lmao, that comparison is 😅
BTW, I saw this cool site a bit ago: http://prakrit.info/prakrit/AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 21:14, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, that's a really amazing website! -- Bhagadatta (talk) 01:15, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
Discussion moved to Talk:𑀡𑀻𑀬.

Hindi modularisationEdit

Hi,

How are you? You haven't been very responsive lately - regarding Hindi inflections, transliterations. I hope it's not me, LOL. Let me know what if you don't like something. Thank you for all the hard work. I think we are getting somewhere thanks to you and Benwing2, even if it may not feel that way. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 12:24, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev: Ah sorry! No nothing like that! I have just been lacking the energy to handle some of the queries the past few days (tons of work with my semester starting), so I have been doing more menial tasks here now and then. Sorry if you got a negative message from that, that is not the case. I believe I have caught up with all of the recent questions. I definitely think this is a great initiative, super thankful to @Benwing2 for his module work and you for starting it all. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 14:05, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

User:शब्दशोधकEdit

Regarding page "क्षमा" + my blockEdit

Hi. Please tell me what was wrong in the edit I made to the page "क्षमा" and why you blocked me. - (शब्दशोधक (talk) 05:57, 29 August 2020 (UTC))

@शब्दशोधक: Please see your talk page. You have been removing perfectly good information, including whole well-researched Sanskrit entries and Urdu forms of Hindi words. Also, you have been totally unresponsive. There are too few South Asian language editors for us to cleanup every single entry and revert every incorrect edit, so a block is an expedient way of resolving these issues. I would really suggest looking at WT:ELE and understanding proper formatting. Don't get me wrong, it is great to have new editors, but as we are all volunteers we want to minimize unnecessary work and limit sub-par contributions. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 15:30, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
@शब्दशोधक In your entry for क्षमा (kṣamā), you gave the meaning "pardon/forgiveness". This meaning does not exist for that word in Sanskrit as क्षमा rather means tolerance and patience. The meaning "pardon" seems to be innovated by Hindi.
Earlier, you did the same at वातावरण (vātāvraṇ). That was even worse because this word does not exist in Sanskrit but you removed the Hindi entry and replaced it with a Sanskrit entry for a word that does not exist in Sanskrit. These are two of the multiple reasons for your block. -- Bhagadatta (talk) 16:44, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi. I understand what you say and that I will not remove Urdu forms of Hindi words and neither will I edit anything before checking properly about that. शब्दशोधक (talk) 16:45, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

सञ्ज्ञाEdit

I am just asking one more thing about the word सञ्ज्ञा. I have checked it out about this word well that it does exist and संज्ञा is an alternative form of it. As we know that in Sanskrit, ज्ञ = ज् + ञ, while is pronounced as ग् + य in Hindi. We know that ञ is used in case there is the अनुस्वार(anusvāra) before either च छ ज or झ. In Hindi, संज्ञा is all right but in Sanskrit, considering that ज्ञ is nothing but ज्(j) and ञ(ña), and that ञ् (ña) can be used to replace ं(ṃ) before ca cha ja and jha. So just saying that संज्ञा(saṃjñā) can indeed be written as सञ्ज्ञा(sañjñā). Please reply and tell me if I should recreate the deleted page. Thanks and regards. शब्दशोधक (talk) 16:45, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: Thank you, I look forward to your edits :) सञ्ज्ञा (sañjñā) is not a valid spelling because the prefix सम्- (sam-) is always expressed with the anusvara ं not with the different nasal consonants when sandhi occurs. But, I do see सञ्ज्ञा (sañjñā) gets some results online; I don't think in Classical/Vedic Sanskrit it would ever be spelled like this, but modern Sanskrit may be different. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 16:53, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

वातावरणEdit

@Bhagadatta Hi. I do think that the word वातावरण does exist in Sanskrit as वात and आवरण are both Sanskrit words and when you join them, you get वातावरण. In fact I have confirmed it from many sources. There is the Google’s dictionary, hindi2dictionary, shabdkosh.raftaar, etc. I hope you check these out once on these and conform that it is a word in Sanskrit. Reply back to me after that. Thanks and regards. शब्दशोधक (talk) 16:56, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: Hi there! The dictionaries you mentioned are Hindi dictionaries right? They give Hindi entries for these words. For Sanskrit the best resource to use would be this: http://sanskritdictionary.com/
It has combined the contents of many Sanskrit dictionaries. So if you type a word which for some reason is not present in Monier Williams' Sanskrit dictionary but is in Vaman Shivram Apte's dictionary then you'll still get a result. Entering वातावरण on that website gives no results. The reason is, both वात and आवरण exist in Sanskrit as you mentioned but they were not combined to form a compound - that happened only in Hindi.
There is also a way to check if and where a particular word exists within attested Sanskrit literature: http://www.sanskrit-linguistics.org/dcs/index.php?contents=abfrage
Here you can enter the IAST transliteration of a word and see where it has occurred in literature, like the Vedas, Upanishads, Mahabharata, the Vyākaraṇa texts etc. Even this site gives no results for vātāvaraṇa.
Regards -- Bhagadatta (talk) 01:10, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: Hi there! I just want you to check out at वातावरण which states its meaning as weather in Sanskrit. Regards. शब्दशोधक (talk) 03:38, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: Following WT:CFI as this word doesn't occur commonly in known Sanskrit works and texts (including modern ones) then we won't have it on Wiktionary. The thing with the Spokensanskrit website is that they just make up words. Like you can see there's the word for "disk drive" which has never been used in any actual Sanskrit texts. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 03:55, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
@शब्दशोधक: Thanks for the the reply. Earlier, I also used to use spokensanskrit.de until I saw it contained words not attested in any Sanskrit work or dictionary. In this talk page message you can see spokensanskrit.de was known to be inaccurate even back in 2015. Now, if the word वातावरण exists in school textbooks of Sanskrit or is used in any modern day Sanskrit publication, we can add the word and give it the tag of New Sanskrit or "neologism" or something like that. Please let me know if you saw this word in a textbook of Sanskrit or an article written in Sanskrit.
By the way, I have restored the Sanskrit entry at क्षमा. -- Bhagadatta (talk) 04:14, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: Please check out वातावरण शब्दशोधक (talk) 04:30, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: It seems as if it's a part of New Sanskrit vocabulary. That website again is evidently not reliable as searching something like ऋक्ष gives no results, while in reality the word does exist in Sanskrit. The most convenient source to consult would be Monier Williams' dictionary the link to which I have posted above. -- Bhagadatta (talk) 04:53, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Regarding ताराEdit

Hi there! I am writing regarding the page तारा. The Hindi word for star तारा is derived from Sanskrit word तारक. I don’t think that there is a word called tārā in Sanskrit. What do you think about this? Should the entry be deleted? I feel so. Thanks and regards. (शब्दशोधक (talk) 09:37, 30 August 2020 (UTC))

@शब्दशोधक: The word exists in Sanskrit. It occurs in the Mahabharata according to Monier-Williams. So it shouldn't be deleted. But you are right about the Hindi entry, I have fixed it and cleaned it up. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 15:54, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

@AryamanA: Hi there! Thanks a lot for correcting the word. शब्दशोधक (talk) 04:56, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Regarding page ज्ञानिन (jñānina), बिशेष (biśeṣ) and बिशेषण (biśeṣaṇ)Edit

Hi Aryaman. There is a page called ज्ञानिन although I think no word as ज्ञानिन exists without the हलन्त in Sanskrit. As the word ends in the नकार, there is no vowel attached to it. So just saying that I doubt if there is a word ज्ञानिन. I think the right word is ज्ञानिन्. Regards (शब्दशोधक (talk) 03:21, 7 September 2020 (UTC))

Thanks a lot for deleting the wrong page शब्दशोधक (talk) 07:15, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

@AryamanA: Thanks for deleting the wrong page. I am asking about the words बिशेष and बिशेषण. I am also unaware of बिशेष being an alternative form of विशेष and बिशेषण being an alternative form of विशेषण. Please verify and tell me if the word exists along with source or delete these 2 words. Thanks and regards, (शब्दशोधक (talk) 08:21, 7 September 2020 (UTC))

@शब्दशोधक: Agreed, I'll delete those too. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 15:20, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

@AryamanA: Thanks a lot for helping remove unnecessary words from Wiktionary शब्दशोधक (talk) 15:46, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Inflection of Sanskrit NounsEdit

@AryamanA: Hi there! Since a few days, I am working on creating inflections of Sanskrit nouns mostly. I just want to ask you something regarding this. Many times inflections of Sanskrit nouns function as Adverbs, particularly in their instrumental singular form. Like अखिलेन, कृपया, अर्थात्, etc. So I am a bit confused how to label them - as Adverb, Noun, Noun form, Noun inflection, or something else. Sorry for bothering again but as I am a new editor so I am not aware of many things and formatting here. Hoping for your advice. Thanks & regards, शब्दशोधक (talk) 11:56, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

@AryamanA: And apologies once again for adding so much clutter to your talk page since I have joined. शब्दशोधक (talk) 12:15, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

@AryamanA: I have also deleted a bit of useless content like fixing the -इक (-ika) suffix, which I added some time before when I didn’t know about the template {{prefix|sa}} and adding it to categories. But please don’t block me for that and please don’t consider these messages clutter because I really need your advice on this. Thanks & Regards, शब्दशोधक (talk) 12:23, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: It would be great if you can also advise me on this. Thanks, शब्दशोधक(सम्पर्क करेंयोगदान) 08:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: They are adverbs and not just mere inflections. MW's dictionary has separate entries for them (usually there are no separate entries for inflected forms, only lemma forms are used there). So they can be kept as adverbs, with the etymology being given as: "instrumental singular of अखिल (akhila)". -- Bhagadatta (talk) 10:14, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: Thanks for your reply. And one more question- for the rest of the forms, they can be kept just as {{head|sa|noun inflection}}? Regards, शब्दशोधक (talk) 10:52, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: Use {{head|sa|noun form}} and in the definition, use {{inflection of|sa}}. Take a look at पूर् (pūr), द्यौस् (dyaus), ऋक्षेण (ṛkṣeṇa) and follow the format exactly. Change the abbreviation as per the requirement (like ||nom|s}} for nominative singular, ||ins|s}} for instrumental singular, ||abl|s}} for ablative singular etc). -- Bhagadatta (talk) 12:36, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: Noted with thanks. शब्दशोधक (talk) 16:07, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

दीपावलि की शुभकामनाएँEdit

@Bhagadatta, AryamanA : कः 14:06, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: बहुत धन्यवाद और आप दोनों को भी दीपावली की हार्दिक शुभकामनाएँ! -- Bhagadatta(talk) 14:24, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta, AryamanA: क्या आपको कोई e-mail (विद्युत्पत्त्र - संस्कृत विकिपीडिया के अनुसार) आया मेरा जिसमे मैंने संस्कृत में एक पङ्क्ति लिखी है? धन्यवाद! कः 15:11, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: Yeah I saw it now. I hardly ever use/open the email ID which I have at wiktionary so I missed it. -- Bhagadatta(talk) 02:35, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta: Good to know! Are there any mistakes in that sentence? कः 03:12, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

@शब्दशोधक: no grammatical mistakes as far as i can tell, only sandhi was incomplete in a few places (for instance भवतः जीवने (bhavataḥ jīvane) should have been भवतो जीवने (bhavato jīvane) etc) -- Bhagadatta(talk) 03:36, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

@Bhagadatta, शब्दशोधक: A belated Diwali to you! No holiday for me here in America 😆 hence been a bit busy. शब्दशोदक, अहं तव विद्युत्पत्त्राय तुष्यामि! तव संस्कृतं मम संस्कृतात् वस्य। —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 19:21, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

अहं प्रसन्नोऽस्मि! उत्तराय धन्यवादः। Even I am very busy now, but.... seems like I have become addicted to editing here. Trying hard to overcome.... संयम रखने का यत्न कर रहा हूँ। कः 05:05, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Request for template creationEdit

Hello! Could you please create a template for the following reference that I intend to use for some Bengali etymological, phonological & orthographical informations, certain internal reconstructions of unattested Bengali, and (hopefully afterward) Middle & Old Bengali entries:
Chatterji, Suniti Kumar (1926) The Origin and Development of the Bengali Language, Calcutta University Press
The treatise is found in two volumes. So we can have something like this: {{ODBL|volume no.|page no.}} (after the initialism of the book's name). Here are the links to the two volumes (PDFs): Volume I & Volume II. You may modify or add more details at will. Thanks. inqilābī [inqilāb zindabād] 17:01, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

@Lbdñk: Oh I love this book! Can't believe we don't have a template for it already; adding it now. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 22:01, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
@Lbdñk: See {{R:ODBL}} (following reference template guidelines). —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 22:06, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Transliteration Module (Deva -> Sind)Edit

Hi AryamanA. I hope you're well.

I converted a transliteration module for Deva/Sind. It seems to be working as expected except for letter which is ड़ (𑋊). In Deva, it is a combination of the nuqta at the bottom and ड. Whereas in Khudawadi, it is simply a standalone character. Do you have any ideas on how I can solve this? Taimoorahmed11 (talk) 08:52, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

On a related note: there are 5 entries in CAT:E due to the script variety sd-Deva not being in the system. You should always check CAT:E for a few days after working with modules that are in use. It looks like an admin will have to add the script to Module:scripts/data and add it to the list for sd at Module:languages/data2. I don't know enough about either the script or Module:scripts/data to feel comfortable doing it myself. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:31, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
@Taimoorahmed11: I've fixed it by adding the nuqta to the character-matching regex. (Basically, it will look for character + optional nuqta to convert; if you want to know how it works you'll have to learn about regular expressions.) Also, Khudawadi is a beautiful script.
@Chuck Entz: There's no need for an sd-Deva (thus far) so I've just made it Deva. No more module errors. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 17:51, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
@Aryamanarora:, Thank you very much for the help. I tried looking at other modules but still couldn't understand how to make it work. I'll definitely look into the 'Regular Expressions'. I really appreciate your help.
@Chuck Entz: I apologise if i caused any errors, I definitely was wondering how to add the new script into the system but I wasn't aware on how to do it and definitely didn't think it could cause any problems. Again, apologies. Taimoorahmed11 (talk) 17:56, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Module ErrorsEdit

There are currently 22 Devanagari entries in CAT:E as a result of your edits to the ancestor information in the data modules. Nothing wrong with the edits, but the etymologies that use {{inh}} with the wrong codes need to be cleaned up. There are probably some that haven't shown up yet because the edits haven't propagated to all of the transclusions yet. You should be able to find those in the relevant "language X terms inherited from language Y" categories before then. Thanks! Chuck Entz (talk) 14:50, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Chuck Entz: Thanks for bringing this to my attention! I had not correctly categorized some of the subfamilies, so the pages themselves (except for 1 Ahirani lemma) are okay. This reorganization will take a bit, so if you see any more errors that slip me please yell at me! —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 16:25, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

We sent you an e-mailEdit

Hello AryamanA,

Really sorry for the inconvenience. This is a gentle note to request that you check your email. We sent you a message titled "The Community Insights survey is coming!". If you have questions, email surveys@wikimedia.org.

You can see my explanation here.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:48, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

*pr̥tHwíH, not *pr̥tʰiwíHEdit

Regarding this change:

  1. The Indo-Iranian protoform of पृथिवी (pṛthivī́), पृथ्वी (pṛthvī́) and 𐬞𐬆𐬭𐬆𐬚𐬡𐬍‎(pərəθβī‎) is obviously *pr̥tHwíH (< *pl̥th₂-w-íh₂)—why would there be an extra *-i-? This form is typical of feminine u-stems; cf. *bʰaȷ́ʰwíH < *bʰn̥ǵʰwíh₂ (feminine of *bʰn̥ǵʰús) < earlier *bʰn̥ǵʰéwih₂ (of *bʰénǵʰus).
  2. *pl̥th₂-éwih₂ is not a valid link. It will always be a redlink.

Please revert. — 69.120.64.15 19:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

pa-Arab transliteratorEdit

Hi AryamanA,

I hope you're well especially during these times.

I saw the ks-Arab translit and I was dumbfounded at how great it seems to be working and was wondering if you could try and sort of out the pa-Arab translit, which could then also be used for Urdu transliterations. I tried my best a while ago but I'm not the greatest at managing modules.

Currently, the problems with the translit are:

1. Short vowels and diacritics: Zer, Zabar, Pesh, sakun (no schwa) and tashdeed (geminite/doubles consonant)
2. Long vowels that can be either a vowel or consonant (if consonant then a diacritic must be on top of the consonant)
3. Aspirated consonants, - if it's possible to not put diacritics on the ھ in order to represent a schwa
4. Vowels with a hamza - ئ، ۓ، أ
4b. Mapping of ۓ & ئے, ئ & ئی
-Taimoor Ahmed(گل بات؟) 16:54, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Borrowed vs. derivedEdit

Do you even understand what "borrowed" means? The fact that inflectional affixes are added to some loanwords in Polish doesn't change the fact that they're still borrowed, as inflectional patterns for adjectives in German and Polish are different. It'd be impossible for the Polish word to be borrowed without any changes to it, because "real" wouldn't be a proper Polish adjective. But "derived" means that there's an intermediary stage which is not the case in Polish, and morphemes DO NOT make words "derived" if their base was DIRECTLY borrowed from one language, and affixes were added SIMULTANEOUSLY. Shumkichi (talk) 17:34, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

@Shumkichi: THANKS for your KIND RESPONSE. That makes sense though, so I won't touch it now. I do recommend being nicer because the internet is bad enough as is without us SCREAMING on lexicographic websites. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 17:42, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Urdu Headword ModuleEdit

Hi Aryaman :D, I hope you're well, especially during these uncertain times.

I was wondering if you could create the Headword module for Urdu as I've almost perfected the Urdu transliteration tool and I want to be able to implement the translit module.

-Taimoor Ahmed(گل بات؟) 22:22, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Indo-Aryan extension categoriesEdit

Not sure if you noticed but I replaced {{inc-extension-cat}} with a proper category handler in Module:category tree/poscatboiler/data/terms by etymology (a handler near the bottom, plus a label "terms with Indo-Aryan extensions" and raw umbrella metacategory "Indo-Aryan extensions" elsewhere). (BTW this module is getting rather large; I need to break it up but haven't quite figured out how to do that.) I am going to delete {{inc-extension-cat}} and the code in Module:inc-extension that implements it. Benwing2 (talk) 23:05, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

@Benwing2: I appreciate it, that is certainly a better way to go! —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 23:16, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Mass Changes by User:Kushalpok01Edit

Dear User:AryamanA, I hope you are doing well. On English Wikipedia today, User:Austronesier raised the issues of recent mass changes by User:Kushalpok01, who replaced the character झ़ू with श़ू in multiple places, despite the former being the predominant usage. At English Wikipedia, various users have undone this damage. This user has done the same on several articles here, as well as on Hindi Wikipedia too (see Exhibit A and Exhibit B), and probably in other places that I have not noticed yet. I would be grateful if you could please address this as this is disruptive to the entire project. Kind regards, Anupam (talk) 15:36, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

@Anupam: I'd also prefer झ़ (ža) for that sound and I agree these edits (replacing झ़ with श़) are not-so constructive. Let's wait for some response from Aryaman and @Kushalpok01. Regarding disruptive edits on Hindi Wikipedia and other wikis - Aryaman doesn't have admin right on Hindi Wikipedia and other wikis, so I'd advice you to ask about this to local sysops there. 🔥𑀰𑀩𑁆𑀤𑀰𑁄𑀥𑀓🔥 15:47, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
User:शब्दशोधक, thank you. It's quite clear that the standard usage is झ़ (ža). We can't change the predominant usage on Wikipedia just because User:Kushalpok01 personally feels that श sounds more similar to झ़. Anupam (talk) 16:31, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
@Anupam: Thanks for the heads up. Kushalpok01 has not done any replacements of झ़ with श़ on this project, which is the only place I have sysop rights--not sure how else I can help. I agree that झ़ is the preferred standard orthography, and I have not encountered the other श़ ever. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 16:39, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

अश़दहा, शूश 🔥𑀰𑀩𑁆𑀤𑀰𑁄𑀥𑀓🔥 16:42, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

I appreciate your reply User:AryamanA. Please have a look at their contributions, e.g. the creation of श़ूश़. I will try to undo some of the other undiscussed changes where I have the ability to do so. If both you and User:शब्दशोधक are active at Hindi Wikipedia, please have a look at their contributions where they have implemented the problematic change en masse; I have raised the issue on the administrator's noticeboard there and your participation would be appreciated. I am not that active at Hindi Wikipedia so I will leave it to you both. Thanks, Anupam (talk) 17:08, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Accelerated Hindi entry creationEdit

Hi,

I've enabled User:Wyang/autoLoad.js on my User:Atitarev/common.js. Now Hindi is also enabled for me to make use of {{hi-new}}. I have disabled languages by scripts, which are not accelerated in User:Wyang/autoLoad.js because it conflicts with green links.

I can simply open a red link to make a call to the template. This is how I have just made an entry for वर्णन करना (varṇan karnā) with a few clicks.

It may want more enhancements, more parameters, such as optional Urdu or McGregor dictionary reference and modularisation but it's good as it is too, thank you! --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 00:40, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Oops, |ref= already exists. --01:08, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

CAT:Bihari languageEdit

Any idea what this language actually is? There is a subgroup by the same name, but I have never heard of a single “Bihari language”… (@Bhagadatta, Kutchkutch) -- dictātor·mundī 22:47, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

@Inqilābī: {{R:inc:IAL}} has called the Bihari language "spurious". As for "Bihari languages" as a whole group, it is very hesitant to consider such a classification at first; but over due course it seems to gradually and reluctantly accept this idea, mentioning the group "Bihari languages" multiple times. I think that is what the Wikipedia article w:Bihari languages is based on. -- 𝓑𝓱𝓪𝓰𝓪𝓭𝓪𝓽𝓽𝓪(𝓽𝓪𝓵𝓴) 01:07, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
@Bhagadatta: The group Bihari languages is not any genetic group obviously, it's just a geographical one, and that’s been noted since the time of Chatterji. But how did the idea of a “Bihari language” stem anyway? Was it meant to be some ancestor of the Bihari languages, or something? I have seen AryamanA himself adding ‘Bihari’ words as descendants in the family tree. There are also ‘Bihari’ lemmas, besides CAT:User bh. I think we should simply get this language deleted. -- dictātor·mundī 08:43, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
@Inqilābī: The “Bihari language” being intended as some ancestor of the Bihari languages is an interesting guess. Perhaps the idea of a “Bihari language” is based on A Comparative Dictionary of the Bihārī language. While the code bh is used by Wiktionary for Category:Bihari language, Wikipedia uses the code bh for Bhojpuri.
The most detailed discussion about the “Bihari language” appears to be at Talk:हांव#Sanskrit:
mādhavpaṇḍit: Haha! But what is the Bihari language? Is there a single language? Aren't the languages spoken in Bihar a cluster of dialects for which an umbrella term Hindi can be used? (Hindi languages). Even Wikipedia says there's a group called the Bihari languages but does not allude to one language. Yet wiktionary has it as a single , separate language with two lemmas which are very common words across the subcontinent, so it doesn't help to understand what classifies as a "Bihari" word
Aryaman: Bihari is an Eastern Hindi language. I don't know anything about it, but if you look deep enough, every language starts to look like a collection of dialects, lol. I have noticed though, McGregor's Hindi dictionary does mark some words as "Bihari". From a cursory online search, it looks like Bhojpuri to me. Definitely mutually intelligible with Standard Hindi.
According to Wikipedia, the advancement of the Bihari languages has been hindered because:
These languages were legally absorbed under the overarching label Hindi in the 1961 Census. Such state and national politics are creating conditions for language endangerments.
@Bhagadatta: The “Bihari language” corresponds to the territory of the Magadha kingdom before its expansion, and the Magahi language is also known Magadhi just like the Prakrit lect. Kutchkutch (talk) 09:20, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
@Inqilābī, Kutchkutch, Bhagadatta: There is not such thing as a monolithic "Bihari" language presently. It is a dialect continuum that has coalesced around Magahi, Maithili, and Bhojpuri, with other smaller lects that may achieve some kind of official status including Angika and Bajjika. Bihari also includes the Tharu languages of Nepal, which are not very standardised and understudied. You can see a rough map I've developed here. —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 16:01, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
@AryamanA: Since the individual Bihari languages are represented here, do we have need of a ‘Bihari language’? This is sheer redundancy. If you want to unify the dialect continuum then abandon the individual languages/lects, or else delete this Bihari language. -- dictātor·mundī 17:23, 23 April 2021 (UTC) P.S. Or, is the Bihari language meant for convenience so that one has not to look for the individual languages, while dealing with descendants in the descendant section? If so, then at the least it should not be a fullfledged language here.

HiEdit

It was good to meet you this afternoon.--Brett (talk) 23:58, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

भवत् IAST transliterationEdit

Namaskar @AryamanA ji, I have noticed that you have written the IAST translation of भवत् as bhávat. Should it not be bhavat? Rishabhbhat (talk) 07:14, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

@Rishabhbhat: That is a Vedic accent. Even Monier-Williams shows it. 🔥शब्दशोधक🔥 08:30, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

آسُن (to be) in KashmiriEdit

While the Kashmiri آسُن (to be) is indeed pronounced like the Sanskrit आस् the meaning is more similar to the root अस् (to be). Rishabhbhat (talk) 07:19, 25 June 2021 (UTC)