Talk:糞

Min Bei Tone

@Atitarev There's a logic to why it's be̤̿ng and not bê̤ng. The ˆ diacritic is for 陽平 and the ̿ diacritic is for 陰去. So it depends on whether the character is 陽平 or 陰去. Well, the character 糞 is 陰去, so that's why it's be̤̿ng. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 12:58, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev: Comparing it to Min Dong, it's "bóng" because the ˊ diacritic in this romanization is for 陰去. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 12:59, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: Dictionaries show 陰去 but that’s the current pronunciation, since the two tones merged in Min Bei. We need to know what the original tone was to get the right romanisation. User:Justinrleung suggested Min Dong may help sometimes but this test is unreliable. —Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:25, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Atitarev: Actually, all the other dialects, Cantonese, Min Nan, can all be guides as to whether it's 陽平 or 陰去. If you look at all the other dialects, they all show 糞 is 陰去. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 13:27, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: Yes, you’re right. Min Dong is actually also 陰去. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:37, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Etymology

The Old Chinese reconstructed pronunciations for 糞／粪 (fèn, “excrement”) are very similar to those of 分 (“to divide”). Are the two Proto-Sino-Tibetan lemmas for 糞 and 分 related in any way, (assuming 分 is ST; 糞 seems ST at least)? There's a very similar semantic development of Proto-Germanic *skitiz (“excrement”) from Proto-Indo-European *skeyd- (“to split, divide, separate”). Agamemenon (talk) 00:52, 13 October 2023 (UTC)