Talk:Ailill mac Máta

RFD discussion: February–July 2015

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Ailill mac Máta

Ailill mac Máta (< Máit?)

Amairgin mac Echit

Amergin mac Echit, variant of Eccit, genitive of Eccet

Cairbre Nia Fer

Cairbre nia fer

This meaning of nia (later niad or niath, cf. Modern Irish niata (“warriorlike”, adj)) isn't there yet.

Cet mac Mágach

Cét mac Mágach

Cethern mac Fintain

Cethern mac Fintáin

Conchobar mac Nessa

Conchobar mac Nessa

Condere mac Echach

Condere mac Echu (Echach)

Cormac Cond Longas

Cormac cond longas

Fedlimid mac Daill

Fedlimid mac Dall

Fergus mac Róich

Fergus mac Róch

Fionn mac Cumhail

Finn mac Cumal

Manannan mac Lir

This is a special case: Manannán is a unique name, possessed only by the god Manannán mac Lir. The elements are probably worth adding in their own right, Manannán in the etymology of the Isle of Man, and Ler in the possible origin of King Lear, and his Welsh cognate Llŷr. (He's also the father in the story of Clann Lir, where his four children were turned into swans by their evil stepmother.)

Per WT:CFI: "No individual person should be listed as a sense in any entry whose page title includes both a given name or diminutive and a family name or patronymic. For instance, Walter Elias Disney, the film producer and voice of Mickey Mouse, is not allowed a definition line at Walt Disney." (These individuals are of questionable historicity, but the aforecited section of CFI says it "regulates the inclusion and exclusion of names of specific entities, that is, names of individual people, [...] names of mythological creatures", etc, emphasis mine) See also my and others' comments at WT:RFV#Lugaid_mac_Con_Ro.C3.AD. Someone else may want to nominate entries like Conall the Victorious. - -sche (discuss) 22:39, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

• Delete*, and I find it strange that these are marked English rather than Old or Middle Irish.

(*) Technically, Cairbre Nia Fer and Cormac Cond Longas have neither patronymics nor family names. The names mean (as far as I can tell from Googling - I'm sure one of our Irish speakers can put me straight) Cairbre, Hero/Defeater of Men and Cormac, Exiled Prince. I would assume that this sort of disambiguator would also make an individual ineligible for inclusion, although I see we do have Alexander the Great and Mary Magdalene. Smurrayinchester (talk) 09:03, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Cairbre Nia Fer and Cormac Cond Longas are other examples of people, not names as names. Is it worth adding a section to Proper noun entries of "Notable bearers" or the like? With wikipedia links, say.

Mythical people is one thing, but gods is another. Manannán is a unique god. Similarly, I can't find any examples of Lugh as people, but there are names derived from him: Lugaid, Lugach, Lugair. The difference is that Lugh has many bynames -- samildánach, lámfada, macnia -- but Manannán is primarily known with his patronym. --Catsidhe ^{(verba, facta)} 09:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I'd certainly support adding something like ", name of several ancient Irish kings." to entries like Conchobar and Ailill (which don't yet exist!), similar to what we have at Henry. Smurrayinchester (talk) 10:09, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

• Soft redirect to Wikipedia for all of these that are SoP to existing name elements. bd2412 T 13:58, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

  Good idea. (Or what is {{no entry}} for? lol) - -sche (discuss) 19:56, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

All entries have been deleted or soft-redirected to Wikipedia after pages were created for the given names and, in many cases, also the parents' names. - -sche (discuss) 08:41, 30 July 2015 (UTC)