Talk:Principality of Wales
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This is not the official name of Wales. From wikipedia: "The governments of the United Kingdom and of Wales almost invariably define Wales as a country.[101][102] The Welsh Government says: "Wales is not a Principality. Although we are joined with England by land, and we are part of Great Britain, Wales is a country in its own right."[103] The title Prince of Wales is still conferred on the heir apparent to the British throne, currently Prince Charles. However the Prince of Wales has no constitutional role in modern Wales.[104] According to the Welsh Government: "Our Prince of Wales at the moment is Prince Charles, who is the present heir to the throne. But he does not have a role in the governance of Wales, even though his title might suggest that he does.""[[1]]Leucostictes (talk) 11:22, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- The definition is apparently wrong in reference to modern times (what is the official name of Wales?), but there's definitely usage in reference to earlier periods of Welsh history. See w:Principality of Wales. I'm sure that some people refer to Wales by that name even today when talking about the Prince of Wales, but there's nothing official about it as far as I can find. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:43, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- In the UK, you will often hear Wales spoken of as simply "The Principality" (and Northern Ireland as "The Province"). SemperBlotto (talk) 18:48, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- Yes, but the entry says its the official. I don't think that's correct. Wikipedia states its not officially a principality. When the title started actually the heir to the tthrone was considered a Welsh monarch, but that's no longer the case, at this point the title is just an honorific, without even nominal monarchical meaning, so I don't think principality is the official name.Leucostictes (talk) 21:09, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- "Wales was officially recognised as a country in December 2011 by the influential International Organisation for Standardisation (ISO) - but it hasn’t really been a Principality for hundreds of years.
- Yes, but the entry says its the official. I don't think that's correct. Wikipedia states its not officially a principality. When the title started actually the heir to the tthrone was considered a Welsh monarch, but that's no longer the case, at this point the title is just an honorific, without even nominal monarchical meaning, so I don't think principality is the official name.Leucostictes (talk) 21:09, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
Despite the relatively recent recognition of Wales as a country, even though it has its own National Assembly, anthem, language and our own rugby and football teams, it hasn’t been a Principality since the 16th century."[[2]] In my view, the entry should be changed to calling it a "general use" name for Wales, because it is undeniably a common method of description of Wales, I just don't agree its the official name. Leucostictes (talk) 21:17, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- There was a time Wales was a principality and the son of the English King actually was the sovereign of it, but that status was abolished when Henry VIII annexed it to England in 1542. "Wales was a principality, once upon a time. But that was in 1542. 472 years ago… 472 years.
Wales is a country. A nation. We have our own laws. We have a Government, a legislature.
But what, pray tell, is a "principality"?
The Oxford English Dictionary describes a principality as being: "The territory held or governed by a prince."
Now some may offer the Prince of Wales up as an answer to the issue at hand, but that would be wholly inappropriate, since Charles holds no constitutional responsibility over our homeland. His designation is granted by the Queen, and is an entirely traditional title.
No, Wales is a country (472 years-worth of country-dom, remember!)." [[3]] However, it would be accurate to call it the former official name for Wales.Leucostictes (talk) 21:31, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- A principality has as its source of law a Prince. This was abolished in Wales in 1535 and 1542. I agree with striking the word 'official'; although the principality exists in fact as well tradition it no longer matches the country of Wales. Unfortunately, from a legal definition the official name of Wales should likely be the Kingdom of England. Also probably not a good choice. The government of Wales appears to use Llywodraeth Cymru | Welsh Government as the official name for itself. At the very least this is far more pragmatic, accurate, and resistant to interpretation than "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", "Teyrnas Unedig Prydain Fawr a Gogledd Iwerddon", or "Rìoghachd Aonaichte Bhreatainn is Èireann a Tuath". More importantly, it is brief. - Amgine/ t·e 03:39, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- I changed "Principality of Wales" to two definitions, one the historical state in Wales that was a principality prior to the union with England, and two a colloquial name given to Wales by people (because of the Prince of Wales). I think that makes sense.Leucostictes (talk) 04:18, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
RFV-resolved Kiwima (talk) 22:17, 20 October 2017 (UTC)